A guitar truism

[LadyOfTheCastle]

@mathsjunky

I honestly think age and exposure are the biggest factors. Very many young kids brought up in households speaking two languages becomes effortlessly fluent in both.

But science has shown that only kids with above mean intelligence benefit from it.

I live in a country the size of a handkerchief which has 3 official languages. In my life, I have met a lot of people from households speaking 2 languages. You can often tell which language is their ‘mother tongue’ (one parent being less at home than the other can make a difference). They are fluent, but not perfect. Some do get perfect, and others never get the hang of the 2nd language. Friends of my brother have 3 kids. They were all born in the Dutch speaking part. The youngest was still very little when they moved to the French speaking part. They speak Dutch at home, French at school, sports, … The youngest doesn’t speak Dutch anymore, even though it’s the first language he came into contact with and it’s the language used at home.

Of course, it’s true that the younger you are, the easier it generally is to learn something. But it’s far from being a guarantee.

[John_in_Dot]

Some interesting perspectives demonstrated here regarding Guitar abilities, ‘talent’ and hard work. Would peoples viewpoints change at all if we were to replace the word talent with aptitude? I as because I thought talent was equivalent to skill, I.e. Eddie is a talented guitarist when what I really meant was he is skilled.
After checking the online Websters dictionary, I see talent is defined as aptitude. So you are born with talent or the aptitude for something, but work is required to get good/great. If you start with talent it makes it easier to be good/great.

[artax_2]

I’ve read several memoirs by famous musicians, and they all did the same thing- collaborated with other people before they were good at anything. Marilyn Manson was having himself photographed with other people as if they were a band, considered themsleves a band, before they had written a single song or even had a band name. Nikki Sixx claims he joined a band and the bandmates told him to go buy a guitar. So he went and got a bass because he didn’t realize they were different.

What I get out of these kinds of stories, along with the fact that these people were so extremely driven to become famous musicians that they started before they could even play very well (or at all), is that they were in proximity to people who could play well and who were willing to give them a chance even though it would take a lot of time for the person to get good enough to be useful.

I have three or four other guitar playing people in my life. They were unwilling to help me. I ask questions, talk about my frustrations, they sort of refused to participate. I took it as they just didn’t want to teach me guitar. Especially not for free. I was really kind of surprised. But at the same time, I wouldn’t be willing to teach my husband’s 13 year old 2nd cousin how to play piano. I’m not happy with my own piano playing, let alone teach someone else. No, she can go take lessons and learn the right way.

I think its very interesting how some people can be taken under the wings of other people who are good musicians (who are also kind, patient, willing and good teachers), and get taught everything organically and then become great musicians, and get wildly famous. I have no proximity to that where I live. If a person lives in LA, Seattle, NY, Nashville, etc, probably yes.

Basically I learned most famous people got famous through luck, and proximity.

[anthony_g]

@artax_2

Basically I learned most famous people got famous through luck, and proximity.

You’ve hit the nail on the head! The older I’ve got the more I realise how true this is for most endeavours in life.

Ed Sheeran deserves all his success but I know lots of singer/song-writers who are just as good, if not better than he is and worked just as hard (rehearsal, gigging, marketing themselves) to succeed – but ended up going back to the day job. Luck (being in the right place at the right time) and meeting the right people plays a huge role.

In the field of business, lots of companies tried bringing out tablet-like devices but their timing was wrong (too soon) or the market wasn’t quite ready. It wasn’t until Apple brought out the iPad that such a device was viable. Working hard, having good ideas and the right connections are necessary to succeed but you also need external conditions (that you have no control over) to be in your favour.

Also, for anyone reading the accounts of successful people, be aware of survivorship bias. For every successful person, there are countless people who did the same but just weren’t as lucky.

[stitch]

@artax_2

Basically I learned most famous people got famous through luck, and proximity.

@anthony_g

Luck (being in the right place at the right time) and meeting the right people plays a huge role.

Both these statements are far from the truth.
Most Musicians, Sports Stars, Famous or Successful people become famous because they never give up and keep trying until they succeed.

You make your own luck by never giving up, Proximity to people that can make you successful is done by not taking no for an answer and keep trying.

And the biggest thing is no matter how talented you think you are the paying public also has to like what your selling and in the entertainment business you’re selling yourself.
This is why there are so many Fake Famous People. They found a way to sell what people want.

Look at how many Rich kids OD on drugs or fall from family graces. They have luck (they were born rich) they have proximity to other Rich and Successful people and never amount to anything. Yet kids who grow up with next to nothing became house hold names.

[mattswain]

I’d never dismiss luck. You’ve still got to do the work but maybe through one train being late you miss a once in a lifetime meeting with a producer who was on your wavelength. After that you’ve got to take an office job to keep a roof over your head and the opportunity doesn’t come around again.

Luck has played a part in my life. The job that I’ve been doing for the past 20 years wasn’t the result of 1000 application forms and knocking at many doors, it was a chance conversation with a colleague who was offered it but thought it was more my thing - and he was right! To my point I did the work to get to the point of being capable of doing the job, passing exams etc and did the work since to keep the job, but if I’d been off sick that day, or on holiday, someone else might have got that opportunity

[stitch]

@mattswain

but maybe through one train being late you miss a once in a lifetime meeting with a producer who was on your wavelength.

Or you’re sitting right next to the same guy and don’t know who he is because you haven’t been out trying to sell yourself to the people in the know.

Luck goes both ways. Some time it goes against you.

[artax_2]

You either accidentally or strategically missed the part where I said “along with being so extremely driven”.

Of course luck doesn’t work for everyone, or anyone all the time. Of course being driven doesn’t work for eveyone, or anyone all the time. That goes without saying. I think we all understand it’s a little of both for some people, wholly just one or the other for other people, or neither for people like me who are too scared to play for anyone but the cat.

[mattswain]

And also that I gave examples of luck going both ways and got a reply implying that I didn’t. It makes me wonder why I bother when people argue with points I didn’t make

[MAT1953]

[AJSki2fly]

For what it’s worth here are my thoughts from personal experience. Having tried to learn guitar from age 11 in 1969 with no help or support from parents, just discouraged and no lessons, I stopped trying age 14, even though I could play some songs and started creating some(badly).

Lonely living in London aged 20 on a whim passing a local music shop I purchased an electric guitar and amp, and had 3 months of lessons at the shop (all I could afford). Joined 3 lads in a band, learnt how to strum and play their 8 songs. I started to write my own and presented them with 4, the other guitarist/singer didn’t like them he didn’t know the chords (not major, minor or 7s). We got a lady singer she heard my songs and liked them and we started to play them. The guitarist from the band she used to be in said he liked my songs and how I played them (hybrid picking). 2 months later the original 3 members said the band was going to play in a heavy rock style from then on, I left.

I put advert in Melody Maker from that we had a lady singer, bass player, keyboard chap I knew and me on guitar, and part time drummer in another band as well, I had written 4 more songs, and the singer and keyboard player did 4 more. We had 12 songs to refine. We hired a Prophet 5 synth locally to try, and by chance from a record producer, he listened to really bad cassettes tapes of some of our songs, and set up a trial recording session at his studio to do to demo tracks. Bear in mind we had never performed live just practiced together about 8 times. Sadly the night before the bass player went to a party met a girl and let us down, and nothing happened and the band fell apart.

3 months later I had financial issues from band gear and stuff, parents offered to help, but they insisted I had to sell everything and stop playing and get a job if I was to return to their place in Hampshire, so that was that, I made the wrong choice and agreed.

The point of my story which I suspect is not that uncommon is this.

Did I have aptitude or talent, certainly not playing rhythm I struggled back then with it and still do, I seemed be able to write songs that others liked lyrically and constructed played them in such a way that appealed to others, how I do not know, it was manly through trial and error and what I liked the sound of.

I went from a beginner to playing in a band in six months, and in 2 years my second musical adventure was offered the possibility of recording, IMO that was partially luck but also we had a great singer, some reasonable songs and sounded a bit different.

20 years later I went back to College and did a 2 year Music Performance course having only picked up guitar, 3 months earlier, that was really hard, I practiced 6-8 hours a day and slowly started to play better and in time. 3 new songs every 2 weeks was very challenging and we had to solo on at least one. Sadly I got problems with my left arm after 18 months which turned out to be due to a neck injury, I had to stop playing and that was that until I picked up guitar again 2 years ago.

I would say in my experience learning guitar or any other instrument is just dedication, regular practice, and playing with others. Some people have an aptitude or talent, they pick up rhythms and Melody quicker than others, but I would say the more you do it the easier it gets. Luck may have a part to play, but I think if you really want to make life from playing music you can, it won’t be an easy choice and you won’t necessarily become famous, that is down to the individual and how important being a musician is to them over everything else I think.

[MarkPeters]

I’d like to hear what other teachers have to say, whether guitar teachers or not, because in my experience there is no even playing ground in any field of endeavour, much as our puritan moralising might want there to be. I’ve taught several subjects, including beginner guitar, and I have seen that some people are just made for it and some are not.

It is also so obvious that it goes without saying that dogged effort has an effect. Yet for some it produces barely any result.

So it’s neither one extreme nor the other.