I have started learning the string bending technique - and a lick or two

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

Mari - this opened a whole new world and can also be mode related. Drop me a line if you need a sidebar.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

Great video Darrell !

[Mari63]

@DarrellW and @TheMadman_tobyjenner thank you! Great video you shared, Darrell. Toby, I was going to make a comment about modes being related, I know the relative minor of a major scale is the Aeolian mode, but modes seems to me right now a rabbit hole that will overwhelm me. I have a decent understanding of theory (Grade 8 piano in my youth, and the Grade 2 theory required to pass the Grade 8 Royal Conservatory exams - which likely means nothing unless you’re in Canada), and I finished Justin’s Grade 4 theory. Information overload is a major distraction for me though. I’m thinking if I can finish the Major Scale Maestro course then I can decide where to go next. Input from the two of you has decided me to add this journey to my Learning Log at least, so that will be the next step. Toby, I will check in with you to get any resources to think about for after the Major Scale Maestro.

[Beatup6String]

Very helpful video, thank you!

[adi_mrok]

That’s cool report back David, I am happy to see you working on bends and a bit of vibrato. My beginnings were exactly like yours, after few weeks of about 5-10mins a day (depending on your calluses strength) you will be able to keep the bend for a while in tone. Will be interesting to follow this thread so I change settings to be notified about new posts.

Good job David!

[DavidP]

@mari

@mari

What a great idea, David, I’m going to steal it from you although the videos will likely be just for me to watch and see progress.

Thanks, Mari. I was hesitant to post this video in AVOYP, given the nature of it, but I think sharing such progress videos, which reflect the learning journey rather than what has been learned could have more of a place in the Community. So a small part of me wants to start a trend. So if you are working on something where such videos would be appropriate, please do share. All the normal reasons apply.

@mari

you are sometimes hitting the note and sometimes not. That’s what you would expect since you are just starting out. It will be nice to see your progression over a series of posts

Do you think I did better than in the first video?

@mari

Have you tried practicing over a backing track

Part of my practice time is spent playing over a BT. Who knows, I may post up a AVOYP noodle in the near future. The intention here is to record technique practice, to receive technique feedback, the good old Community encouragement, and perhaps encourage others who may be struggling with the same.

@mari

Where to Post, here or in your Learning Log, I think it would get more exposure in your Learning Log.

Yeah we had quite a conversation about that after I posted the first video (this is the second). I see the rationale for posting in LL but also thought it made sense to post in this Category “What Are You Learning”. To repeat myself. This being a Category means that each person’s current learning focus stands as a Topic (rather than a Reply to a Topic as it was on the Forum). And in time I will post up my typical LL entry, which tend to be more retrospective reflecting on activity/progress over a period of time.

And I do think this Category may fit better in the Community Hub, than in Social. @Richard_close2u , I made this suggestion before but don’t recall seeing a response?

@mari

how did you (and anyone else if others have input) decide on learning blues licks vs the major scale module

I have dabbled with improv using both the Major and Minor Pentatonic scales, using the first position patterns picked up already (without following Major Scale Maestro). My aspiration is to be able to not just have some noodling fun, but also to sound bluesy. Hence I made my choice. This following on from the Simple Blues Lead study

@mari

So what I’m planning to do is try different settings every time I practice, then I can experiment a bit with tone while I am practicing learning to solo.

I’m doing the same. And if I ever hit upon a “golden” tone for Blues Lead then maybe I’ll figure out how to use the amp software and replace one of the 12 presets that can be dialled in at the push of a button.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

Great stuff David letting it all hang out. Chappeau !

Thanks Toby. As I said in reply to Mari. I think it is good for us to share this sort of thing, good for learning and encouragement.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

Keep it held and on the string below fret 2 frets back, its the same note

I do try this. But public confession … my ear still needs significant schooling. To me even when a tuner or meter says the tones are matching, they still don’t sound the same to me. I think I am getting better in this, but would benefit from deliberate practice to train my ear.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

but working each lick over a backing track really cements how it fits in. It may sound boring but over a 12BB its weird but the same lick sounds different over the 4 and 5 even though its the same notes. That will make you think about how to use the lick.

I need to do more of this in the play portion of my practice.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

So working the minor pent and blues scales was a given. BUT when I learnt the minor scale (pent or full) was relative to the Major scale and I could use (most of the time) the Major and its relative minor on the same track, was an epiphany moment.

I have enough theory to appreciate that this will come in time, and eventually the “M” word. Happy with baby steps.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

As for tone ? Use pre-sets or twiddle knobs until you find the boat floater. Simples.

Tone can be a little bit like wine tasting, in the way in which people use adjectives. Maybe at some point I’ll be more specific on refining the tone to be able to dial in something that sounds more Peter Green/Gary Moore.

Noting of course that tone is hugely influenced by the fingers and playing, before considering the instrument, amp, and effects.

I enjoyed Justin’s first lesson on tone (in a nutshell, remember to make use of guitar volume and tone controls) and look forward to future lessons.

@DarrellW

@DarrellW

I was just going to mention about soloing using pentatonic scales - this tells about it

Thanks for the video, Darrell. I’ll check it out.

@Beatup6String

@Beatup6String

Very helpful video, thank you!

Thanks Ashu. I am glad it was.

@adi_mrok

@adi_mrok

That’s cool report back David, I am happy to see you working on bends and a bit of vibrato. My beginnings were exactly like yours, after few weeks of about 5-10mins a day (depending on your calluses strength) you will be able to keep the bend for a while in tone. Will be interesting to follow this thread so I change settings to be notified about new posts.

Good job David!

Thanks Adrian. Appreciate you “watching” the Topic. The challenge for me will be to keep up the regular deliberate practice once I return to work. Then I am also curious and eager to see what I can achieve as I explore this path.

[DavidP]

@DavidP

And I do think this Category may fit better in the Community Hub, than in Social. @Richard_close2u , I made this suggestion before but don’t recall seeing a response?

Thanks Richard

[firstrazor]

David, I enjoy looking at you enjoying the practice of licks and bendings and legatos. I can even see some John Mayer like facial expressions when you do bending

I am starting “one day one lick” from this new year’s day, just restarted with the same pattern one licks you did. Maybe I should also open a road case. Sharing Personal Cloud files seems to be a good idea, because my guitar play is mostly over dubbed on origin song, which is always rejected by YouTube.

[Mari63]

@DavidP

So a small part of me wants to start a trend. So if you are working on something where such videos would be appropriate, please do share.

I was thinking that it would be helpful to me to post my progress and get feedback rather than learn in a vacuum on my own. The ‘issue’ is demonstrated by my frequent response when I go to the door to pick up an Amazon delivery during these Covid days (or a pizza delivery!) - crap, I forgot to put my good sweatpants on! Audio may therefore work better for me lol

@DavidP

Do you think I did better than in the first video?

I listened through again to both and honestly it’s hard for me to make a comparison like that in the absence of a chordal background to hear the music in. That’s why I find it helpful to both practice over a backing track when I’m doing intentional practice and not just noodling

[Mari63]

@DavidP

My aspiration is to be able to not just have some noodling fun, but also to sound bluesy. Hence I made my choice. This following on from the Simple Blues Lead study

I went and listened to that and thought it was a great beginning. For me I think I will use that format for ‘episodes’ in my Learning Log, (not the cool multiple guitar shots, that looks too tricky for me right now)

[DavidP]

@firstrazor

@firstrazor

David, I enjoy looking at you enjoying the practice of licks and bendings and legatos. I can even see some John Mayer like facial expressions when you do bending

Thanks Mark. Guess the facial expressions are more sign of concentration than emotional connection.

@firstrazor

Maybe I should also open a road case. Sharing Personal Cloud files

I created a Google account just to have a Google Drive repository to share files for the Community. Easy to upload from my phone and paste in links.

I hope you will do that and create a LL or WAYL topic to share progress

[DavidP]

@mari

@mari

crap, I forgot to put my good sweatpants on! Audio may therefore work better for me lol

sure your ‘bad’ sweatpants are just fine. I assume you have sweatpants on

I hate it when they arrive and start honking, while I’m running around to find keys and put a shirt on (SA summer is topless for me and no shirt worse than bad pants)

Anyhow you have time to get suitably dressed before making the video. As you can see I had time to put a shirt on

@mari

honestly it’s hard for me to make a comparison

For this it’s just about getting the bends closer to pitch more frequently. And I’m not into measurement enough to count the number of bends made and assess the quality to track progress.

@mari

For me I think I will use that format for ‘episodes’ in my Learning Log, (not the cool multiple guitar shots, that looks too tricky for me right now)

I look forward to it.

The lead video with the closeup inset was easy to do in OBS, provided you have two cameras. In my case a webcam and phone. Two phones would also work.

Trickiest part in the rest is syncing the clips. My video editor has a feature that automates that.

But not an issue if playing over a BT. Then the OBS with two cameras is easy and cool.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@DavidP

I do try this. But public confession … my ear still needs significant schooling. To me even when a tuner or meter says the tones are matching, they still don’t sound the same to me. I think I am getting better in this, but would benefit from deliberate practice to train my ear.

There are some “exercises” you can do to get that target note ingrained before you bend. Again best with a backing track. Say you are bending C to D. e string 8th fret. To the BT beat try and fret each note for a couple of bars, C D C D C D C D etc, then slide from C to D for a couple bars. Then go back to fret each for another few bars. Working on listening to the D, so its not just one instant of the note before you bend. Get comfortable with that D or which ever note you are bending to (same exercise) then go for it and use your ears and feel it as well. Just a thought from a lesson I found elsewhere

[stitch]

@DavidP one of the best songs to practice bending is Wonderful Tonight by Clapton
Justin shows how to do the into on an acoustic but doesn’t teach it.
It’s not hard to play so transcribing it yourself will get the bends down faster than learning it
off a youtube lesson.
Give it a go.

I just watched you video again and noticed your not using your wrist and hand to do the full bends.

String Bending Technique

[sairfingers]

@DavidP @mari
I’ve only recently started with the improv stuff so I’m not in a position to offer advice. What I can say though is that I find both major scale maestro lessons and the blues improv lessons dovetail very well. The same techniques apply.

I know one minor pentatonic pattern, one major pentatonic pattern and one major scale pattern. At the moment that’s plenty.

[DavidP]

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

fret each note for a couple of bars, C D C D C D C D etc, then slide from C to D for a couple bars. Then go back to fret each for another few bars. Working on listening to the D, so its not just one instant of the note before you bend. Get comfortable with that D

Thanks Toby, I’ll give this a try, makes sense.

@stitch

@stitch

one of the best songs to practice bending is Wonderful Tonight by Clapton
Justin shows how to do the into on an acoustic but doesn’t teach it.
It’s not hard to play so transcribing it yourself will get the bends down faster than learning it
off a youtube lesson.
Give it a go.

Not hard is perhaps relative, and I confess feel a little anxious about transcribing. That said, it is a good idea and I’ll give it a go.

@stitch

noticed your not using your wrist and hand

Thanks Stitch, will pay more attention to this.

[sairfingers]

@DavidP @mari
Following on from my attempt at Four Strong Winds, I’ve been looking again at the YouTube video of Neil Young and Willie Nelson playing it.

It’s in the key of C and Willie is improvising over it. I’ve been trying to do the same, playing along to the video using C major pent scale and A minor pent notes. Good fun!
Here’s the link. You can fast forward and miss out the intro blurb.
https://youtu.be/yIQu_MVZcas

Addendum: I don’t know anything about harmonica playing, but it strikes me that the harmonica improvs are played using the same technique.

[Mari63]

Thanks Gordon, I will check that out. I’ve tried a few times to solo over easy-ish songs with fairly typical chord progressions but it’s never worked and I go have to jam tracks or my looper pedals. Hopefully this one helps!

[DavidP]

@sairfingers

Thanks for sharing the link, Gordon. What a treat. I do love a performance on stage that is essentially campfire strum a dum dum. It demonstrates that good music doesn’t need to be flash and fast, full of effects, a glitz and glam show.

YT served me up Sugar Mountain next from that show, which is one of my favourites.

As for Willie, he looks a little about how I feel when playing with someone or trying to solo … a little like a rabbit caught in a bright light.

But that brings me back to the point you’ve raised, with @mari joining in … improvising or playing a solo. My 2 (South African) cents …

I think you can go a long way by accenting chord tones as you follow the harmony. If the notes that you end phrases on are chord tones I think it will sound good. If the notes played in a phrase also follow the melody then even better. And the timing and feel of the solo to be at one with the song. Note length and rests being something to be mindful of.

All easier said than done. I guess this is why transcribing is given so much importance by Justin (and others here in the Community). Training the ear to hear and be able to reproduce what you hear on the guitar, eventually to hear melody and harmony in your mind and produce that on the instrument. I went to have breakfast midway through Four Strong Winds, humming the melody (well I think so). The next step would be to sit with my guitar and transcribe that.

Your discussion here has reminded me of one of @Richard_close2u expositions that was created after @batwoman shared this lesson in improvisation taught by Chet Atkins. It was shared in stages with much discussion in between, as is the way of Richard’s teaching, which led me to produce this consolidation. Perhaps worthwhile to go back to the lesson, refresh on the concepts, and maybe do something similar in the key of G?

Now I do love discussion, and am delighted that my Topic focused on my efforts to develop my bending and first foray into learning some basic blues licks, has led to a more general conversation. I’m now just wondering if it isn’t worth taking this conversation to it’s own Topic focused on improvisation? May be something of more general interest to folk here that will be missed because it is hidden in this Topic which frankly may only be being read by people who know me and thus have some interest in what I am doing?

What do you think?

[sairfingers]

@DavidP

I’m now just wondering if it isn’t worth taking this conversation to it’s own Topic focused on improvisation? May be something of more general interest to folk here that will be missed because it is hidden in this Topic which frankly may only be being read by people who know me and thus have some interest in what I am doing?

What do you think?

Difficult one David, we’ve talked about this before. Getting the balance between too many Topics and too few.

I’m having difficulty keeping up with all that’s going on here and am currently only looking at AVoYP and posts from the people I know and whose progress/views interest me.