Interesting conversation 
Quick question: If you have (2 x H2) + O2 and end up with 2 x H20, has the all the energy from the reaction not come from oxidation (lay term burning) of the Hydrogen? I know it works by separating the protons and electrons and passing them through circuits to generate electricity in a more efficient way, but is it not still burning in a different way? The big advantage is of course that thereās no carbon byproducts (unless of course you burn hydrocarbons to generate the Hydrogen 
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I guess they are similar reactions at a molecular level, but I would consider them separate processes.
For a start one is, primarily, generating electricity, whilst the other is generating force through creating explosions.
Iām sure if someone could come up with a cheap, efficient way to burn hydrogen in some sort of combustion engine, it would be mostly clean.
I do wonder, though, if there would still be other emissions created by the heat and other impurities. For instance, Nitrogen Oxides can form from the combination of oxygen and nitrogen in the air under high temperatures.
And such a machine would probably still need lubricants.
Cheers,
Keith
Hydrogen is just not going to happen not for road transport anyhow. Waste of effort.
Thereās also significant worry shifting to it would release a lot of hydrogen into the atmosphere, it being a leaky little boi, and thats quite bad.
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Also what would be the impact on taxes with reduced fuel duty received?
@Majik
I donāt have a reference Keith, only a sketchy recollection of what I read in the paper. Itāll turn up again if itās any good!
As for hydrogen, it is already being used as a fuel for internal combustion engines. Have a look heredeveloped by British company JCB for industrial and agricultural machines.
Edits: my first link wasnāt showing what I wanted to show.
Yes, I was aware of this, although I had forgotten about it as I heard about it well over a year ago, :
Some important points are:
- This is a specially developed hydrogen engine for heavy machinery. Itās not suitable for use in ordinary vehicles
- Normal, existing car engines (with the exception of, perhaps, some rare Wankel engined cars) cannot, and will never, be able to use pure hydrogen as a fuel.
- For many reasons, as @Socio has pointed out, hydrogen is going nowhere as a viable option for everyday vehicle use, despite the oil and gas industry, and some ICE manufacturers, spending hundreds of millions of dollars desperately trying to make it work (and millions on lobbying and advertising).
There are cases where hydrogen possibly does make sense: burning it in special engines to support remote-site heavy machinery is one. Heavy goods vehicles may be another.
In most cases, green hydrogen is created from electricity, and thatās not efficient compared to sticking that same electricity into a battery and using it directly. It makes sense where batteries or power transmission cables are impractical for one reason or another.
Personally, I donāt see hydrogen ever becoming mainstream for passengers cars. And pretty much all of the independent experts say the same.
The video, above, is worth a watch.
Cheers,
Keith
Oh, and thereās a more recent episode talking about hydrogen use on airplanes, which could be another great use-case.
Cheers,
Keith
The JCB engine has been developed for a specific use and isnāt that much different to a diesel engine. A smaller version could easily be developed for cars. Fuel storage and handling might be the biggest drawback though.
Itās highly likely that different solutions will be developed for different sectors.
Itās all quite early yet and thereās no definite way forward.
Nothing is set in stone, but EVs are already quite advanced, and have at least a 10 year headstart on any potential hydrogen engine for cars which are (as far as I know) not currently in development yet.
Plus hydrogen has major supply, storage, cost, and transport issues that there is no sign of being solved.
If you think electricity is expensive, look at the equivalent cost of hydrogen.
Iām not a betting man but, based on following this subject for several years, I would happily place a substantial bet that hydrogen combustion engines in domestic cars will never happen in any substantial way.
Cheers,
Keith
Fully charged are great for looking into every aspect but always put a positive spin on things.
Iām unconvinced hydrogen will work with aircraft because of storage issues etc but it has a chance, unlike cars.
Saw that h2 is now $30 per kg in California, $155 to fill up a mirai. Nuts.
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Possibly. The way I look at it, there are far fewer airports and airfields than services and petrol stations for cars, and those locations have more space and better facilities.
And batteries are a much bigger problem for aircraft because of the weight and energy density.
It might even be possible to generate some hydrogen on-site in some locations.
Cheers,
Keith
The hydrogen is lighter but the tanks and supporting infrastructure, piping, fuel cell etc isnt. FCEV vehicles are no lighter than BEVS plus tanks are hard to package for airplanes
Specifically for aeroplanes, the blended wing body body (BWB) concept should had been adopted since the last century.
Itās a huge shame it wasnāt. Even now that all the technicalities of the BWB have been sorted, thereās no plan as far as I know for one.
If Iām not mistaken thereās much more volume available in a BWB configuration so, some of the storage issues could be addressed assuming the temperature can be maintained low enough.
Yeah thatāll help but itās still very poor energy density, I canāt see them using liquid hydrogen really too dodgy
I can believe that JK. My youngest is working at a place in West MacDonnell Ranges at the moment and his nearest shop is in Alice Springs and he said that is 1 1/2 away. You wouldnāt want to run out of milk would you?
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Now thatās really remote! Is it a mine site?
No, itās a camp site called Glen Helen. Apparently the oldest river in there world is there.
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Driving an EV for 2 years now we live rural and it has a short range of 150 miles that said two thing only needed to charge away from home once, in 20k miles but it hasnāt improved my guitar playing.
I love ev and would never return to ice but I feel that the whole world idea of all or nothing will cause chaos as usual we canāt accept that small steps in the right direction, better than giant leaps off a cliff. We need to realise that a combination of several things would be better than trying to force change. If we could make dropping kids at school in a V8 as socially unacceptable as smoking rather than trying to make someone who drives 100k a year on motorways loose their spare time to waiting at charge points.
We need just to put some common sense into this and if profiteering is controlled people will will take the appropriate routes for themselves and their environment I really do believe that maybe naive on my part. But in the U.K. there is no benefit to running an EV so why bother. After 2 years If I didnāt have a home charging point and wanted to buy a car now it would cost me more to run with a 25% premium on the new price plus be prepared for a huge loss at the resale if not leased. So I would buy a diesel. We need to change we must change but letās do it steady and well, small steps.
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Hallelujah.
I thought it was just me who noticed that and found it totally rediculous.
Thatās a good case for EVs. Theyād be perfect to run errands around the city.
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The main difference is speed, youād be quite happy to sit next to (or even on) a pile of metal while it oxidises, while you probably wonāt want to be within a several tens of metres of it while itās burning 
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