typing two âsquiggly linesâ ~~ (tilde symbols) before and ⌠
thanks 
But I feel terribly lazy now because I can of course look this up myself⌠but this saves time so thank youâŚ
and that tapping and typing 
⌠of course I know the different in the words tapping and typing but somehow I do this wrong this a lot when thinking about it ⌠an unconscious and not desired mistake on my part 
âŚ
nieuwe krachten voor mij ~~~~~~ 
Thatâs a very good point, JK.
Reminds me of the very early days, were I tried to adjust the playing to the given lyrics. Then I realised that Iâm putting the cart before the horse. I sticked with the text or words as they were much more familiar than the bars or notes at that time. Good you pointed that out.
TBH I think that kind of chord sheet is of limited use unless you actually know the song, as in you have heard it enough times to know how the melody goes, which is how you know when to change chords
So guilty âŚproblem is I still do that 
Yeah this discussion brings up thoughts I have about how I know Iâm not going to make a very good guitar player - it all reminds me how guitar is so expressive. I see it as being for creative types, those who like to break the rules, who want to explore and make their own music. Iâm a sheet music reader. I need to know how the song is supposed to be played, and when to change notes and where, that is, after how ment beats. I have no interest in fiddling around trying to discover how it is was played. Just gimme the damn sheets lol. Chord sheets are better than nothing, but to me, theyâre missing tons of crucial information.
I thought I wait a little while and see what comments/suggestions came before responded but felt now was about the right time, so I am responding to them generally in order.
Maya @mayabossa
Yes I got Justinâs two beginners song books and as you say not all of the information is there on numbers of bars etc on some of the songs, which is why I moved fairly quickly to Justin Tabs, as this gave all of the information needed. However, when you want to do a song that Justin has not done, then you are forced to use the likes of Ultimate Guitar and you face the problems again of not having all of the information.
Trevor @skinnyt
Your comments are interesting but not sure how well it would go down at the Guitar Club, me being a very recent joiner and inexperienced guitarist compared to the rest.
Perhaps I should say how it works when we are not practicing for a performance. People bring chord sheets and we divided up into small groups and work on two or three songs for about an hour and then break for coffee. Then each group performs one or two of the songs to the rest at the end of the evening. There is not time to deconstruct a song and all agree what it should be, it is more like a Jam session. That is quite a challenge for a beginner like me, but great fun and I am sure it has helped my development enormously.
Silva @Silvia80
Agree tapping your foot is essential. I found it impossible to play, sing and tap my foot at the same time in my early stages. Then about nine months ago I suddenly noticed that I was tapping my foot without thinking about it. Justin sort of mentions this might happen in one of his lessons on the subject and it did.
As you say a few extra strums in a pattern really doesnât matter.
Roger @roger_holland
Rhythm is important, before I did my first concert with the Guitar Club the leader advice was, if you play the wrong chord the audience will not really notice but if you are not following the beat then they will.
Steve @SteveL_G99
Thanks for your comments, I should have perhaps indicated in the OP where I was in the Journey.
According to the form I have just filled in for the âJustinâs Clubsâ I am advanced beginner, just moved onto Grade 3 and been playing for nearly two years. I should say I play and sing. In terms of strumming patterns, they number into double figures, tended to use the pattern Justin suggested in the song lesson hence the number. Repertoire about forty songs, include ten I am learning for the Guitar Christmas concert, but only about between six from memory, the rest from chord sheets in front of me.
Yes, adding in extra strums is really not issue and Justin mentions it in one of the lessons in the Grade 2 Strumming Course.
Rick @stitch
You are so right when you play on the beat with others, but they are not all playing the same pattern, but not sure that is critical in a band situation. Justin mentions sometimes when he is discussing strumming patterns on songs that he can hear another guitar playing a different pattern.
When learning a song, I do start with playing along with the original and try to work out in my own mind the best pattern and one I can play. I find I will work through quite a few before finally deciding. Just got to the stage where I can play a different pattern for the verse and chorus.
Thomas @Croyvan
Good idea to listen to the melody and I have in the past listened to the original and worked out the number of beats but not really possible when you are learning a song over a very short period.
Jk @jkahn
Must confess it is obvious but not really thought about it, that the music leads, and vocals follow this.
I think that one of the issues with syncing the two is that even when we are practicing songs for a performance, we donât have time to deconstruct the song and get everybody on the same page. What happens after a few sessions everybody seems to adjust so hopefully by the time we get near the performance we are sort of working as one, at least that is the idea, I sure that is not always the case but we are after all not professional and it is free entrance for the audience.
Rob @RobDickinson
You definitely need to change quickly and that is what I have to work on, I generally know the chords, some I may have to look up, but the speed of change is crucial. For me there is a difference to playing sitting down and standing up in terms of speed and accuracy of change.
Also, this time some of the songs have three barre chords in a row, I know what they are and can play them independently but changing between them is a real challenge.
Craig @CD02
A bit like you I do try different patterns and end up with one that I feel comfortable with.
I mentioned above when playing with others we are not all playing the same pattern but hopefully we are all playing on the beat. For a performance someone will volunteer to play a bass so the beat can be defined.
Wayne @6StringKiwi
First of all, welcome to the community.
Yes, when you are working on a song on your own you can match up the chord changes and lyrics.
You mention different grips for the same chord, at first, I tended to work it out depending on the chord before and after but now I just let my fingers (or is it my brain) work out what grip subconsciously. I find now I very rarely play the G chord with fingers 1, 2 and 3.
David @BurnsRhythm
As you say it is all about timing but in real life group situation as I mentioned above, it is not always the case that the lyrics match up nicely with the chord.
Brian @brianlarsen
Yes, I really should ask the question, when I first joined the club about 18 months ago must confess, I was a bit overwhelmed playing with others having only started to play six months before. I am much more inclined to have my input now and ask questions. There is a lot of discussion when I first joined about what Capo and key for singing and this chord sequence doesnât resolve needs to be change, all beyond my understanding but thanks to Justinâs theory course I can at least have a basic understanding of this now.
I do end up with chord sheets for a performance marked up with that sort of information.
Interesting you mention typing, I am the typist for group I am in for this Christmas concert, circulating chord sheets and changes to songs that we have agreed. What really surprised me that some still use handwritten the chord sheet from a typed version.
Stacy @artax_2
I know I am not going to be a good guitarist, started far to late but that doesnât stop me enjoying it and I enjoy the challenges it throws up.
You mention sheet music, I have a very very basic understanding of this but if I tried to learn to play from that I would not get anywhere fast. However, I do look at sheet music occasionally when try to work out how the melody of a song goes a very basic level, i.e. when the pitch goes up a down
@artax_2
Stacy, thereâs no reason why you canât be a good guitar player.
You donât HAVE to be creative. Many people like to be creative but we are all different and guitarists come in many shapes and forms.
Play the music that you want to play and learn to play it well. 
We are all creative types. Creativity is a learned and practiced skill like anything else.
I use these chord sheets and have found them a bit confusing regarding bars on each chord. I have to know how many bars Iâm playing on each chord and where the change occurs. I usually annotate them with bar lines that I have got from listening to the song a lot and also looking at the tab. There are some songs that are in 4/4 with a 2/4 bar stuck in that can be confusing. And also ones with a rhythm push to look out for, so not always changing on the beat. Good luck with it.
Hi Stacy, I wanted to say - donât be so sure about this!! I took piano all through school, completing Grade 8 Royal Conservatory by the time I finished high school. I started playing piano at ~ 9, and guitar at ~ 10. Piano was rules and structure, mostly classical music, and I loved it! For the first many many (many!) years I just learned open and bar chords on guitar, and I was perfectly happy just to strum. Once I could play chords I could play any song I wanted to. The beauty of guitar for me was that it was so much more freeing. I was used to classical piano, which doesnât lend itself to campfire singalongs, but strumming a guitar certainly does. And as for piano not being expressive, I have to disagree with you on that. Classical piano definitely has enough study pieces where the requirement is to play letâs say to technical perfection, and that can overshadow other things. But where would classical piano be without the expressiveness of rubato, dynamics, even touch? What pianist doesnât prefer the weighted keys of a ârealâ piano over a keyboard? So, if youâre a pianist, donât sell yourself short on your potential to learn guitar. You actually even start a few steps ahead by understanding theory.
Have fun on your guitar journey 
Mari
I would stick to a simple strumming pattern if you are feeling this way. Chord changes shouldnât feel random. I am assuming that any guitar club that is open to all abilities are sticking to relatively simple songs. The songs are likely to be in 4/4 and the vast majority of chord changes are likely to occur at the start of a new bar or on beat 3 of the bar (if there are two chords in a bar). In most cases there will be a natural pattern to the songs.
If it feels random it is likely because you are struggling with the beat and/or tempo of the song and I would get this down before worrying about a more complicated strumming pattern.
Many chord charts place chord names in an approximate position - do not use the position of a chord name on a page as an indication of when to change ⌠unless that is clearly stated. You need to listen and learn the art of anticipating chord changes.
no indication of bars
Bar counts are mostly regular. 4/4 time, sequences of bars that are often multiples of 4.
⌠you are not in control of the tempo.
Tempo does not indicate or affect when chords change within a song.
So you have to change at a random point in the pattern you are playing
Mm. There will be nothing random bout when chord changes happen. That would be a cacaphony of noise - especially with multiple guitar players changing chord when they thought it should change.
when the lyrics dictate.
Lyrics sit above and float over the entire musical backing. Singers can take liberties with when they start and finish lyrics and how they phrase them. They are not bound to begin singing on the count of 1, far from it. Lyrics do not dictate chord changes at all. A specific work in a lyric may be a really indicator / reminder of a chord change, but it does not dictate it. Not in a cause and effect way.
Must confess I tend to play a very simple pattern
Which will work and is a safe default.
but would like to try something more complicated.
For sure. Once you come to know a song, upping your game and extending your involvement is part of the fun. You need to know the song first.
If you are going to do this then you may end up with open strings
Perhaps ⌠if you know for sure where the changes are and if you strum on the 4 or the & after 4 and if you find making the next chord change a bit of a rush.
but I think it is more important to keep the rhythm going, am I right
Definitely 100% You could play a complex rhythmic pattern and no chords, just muted strings, and you would be making a solid contribution to the ensemble. You could lose your place with the chords and spend a few bars playing muted until you found your place again.
and is there any other advice.
Listen to music in a different way. Listen to the musicians, not the singer. Listen for the moments when the chords change. See if you can find and count along 1, 2, 3, 4. If the song youâre listening to is familiar see if you can anticipate when a chord change is imminent. Develop that sense and begin to use it with less familiar songs.
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Youâre right, piano can have expression for sure! The expression I meant is the player determines his/her own expression of soul and feel of the music, and does so in the absence of any music that might have it indicated as the intention of the composer. Iâm not classically trained, mind you, though I play pretty much exclusively classical piano music, I took some lessons as a child but have pretty much taught myself ever since. I donât claim to be any good on piano, trust me. But I guess my point is, though piano can have plenty of depth and feel, in my experience, I know what feel was intended because itâs there on the sheet music. I play directly from sheet music and donât alter the piece to my own interpretation.
I feel like itâs the exact opposite with guitarists, no forum Iâve ever read has anyone saying they play to the way a song is intended, because, and this is my uneducated guess, that there is no specific intentionâŚthereâs no sheet music. Thereâs no indication of feel or expression, no nothing, so itâs encouraged (and really itâs crucial) that the player interpret it their own way. Expand. Build, create, to their own style. And thatâs great. Both instruments are wonderful for creative, expressive people. I only meant that guitar really seems to be for expressive types of musicians because without the feel and soul of a player playing it, itâs kind of like whatâs the point? Thats where Iâll be at a disadvantage, because neither the piano nor the guitar inspires me to explore/create/express.
I need to find a class on it, like, ASAP!
Richard @Richard_close2u
As always, a comprehensive and well thought out response. I am not going to go through every point but just pick out two key ones
Rhythm is key â definitely you can get away with a lot if you are in rhythm.
Listen to the music differently â your last point is probably the best advice. Justin is not only teaching you to play the guitar, it is far more than that, if you follow the grade lessons and do some of the other courses such as Theory and Ear Training, he is actually developing you as a overall musician and equipping you with the skills to be look at a chord sheet and determine whether it makes sense or not, they often donât!.
I raised the topic as I needed some advice but as expected I was not alone in finding issues with non-Justin chord sheets. I think most of us working through Grade 1 and 2 will use songs that Justin has done lessons on and have his tabs available or be on the App.
As you get near the end of Grade 2 I think most will venture out into the wide world as you want to do songs that Justin has not covered and at that point you come across chord sheets by others and all the issues that brings.
Thanks again.
Yes, sticking to a simple pattern works.
You are partly right when we are looking at songs for a performance, we tend to choose not to make them too complicated as far as the rhythm is concerned, but some will play the lead guitar over the rhythm guitars. Outside songs for a performance they can get involved at least for a beginner like me, with bar chords, fast and frequent changes and songs with different time signature.