Do you really need an amp? Think twice if you are just starting

[jkahn]

There are plenty of ways to go, no one right way. I started with electric + beginners modelling amp, switched to electric + PC, got sick of being chained to the PC and went to a better modelling amp with an XLR out to the PC.

When my niece wanted to learn, I recommended an amp. Decent computer + software + studio monitors is NOT cheaper than a basic modelling amp. A Fender LT25 amp is less than my “budget” JBL studio monitors.

In fact, my Fender GTX50 amp was less than Amplitube + a pedal controller.

Each to their own. Use software, use a multiFX pedal, use a headphone amp, use a giant amp, whatever. I think being able to just plug in and play for beginners is super important though, and not muck around with loads of settings, so I personally would continue to recommend guitar + amp (within their budget) to a beginner.

[J.W.C]

When it comes down to it, getting something and starting to practice and play is the truly important thing for a beginner. The beginner needs to start practicing and playing. Quibbling over starting with an amp vs. starting with an cheap effects processor and some headphones isn’t really that important in the grand scheme of things. Starting is the main thing.

(That said, I’d probably recommend “start with an acoustic” or “start with an electric and an amp,” for various reasons. But I don’t think either of those is a “one true answer” for all preferences, circumstances, and budgets.)

[sclay]

Guitar and a simple amp is probably the best way to go for a beginner, and I think most would start this way. I would imagine many wouldn’t even be aware of things like audio interfaces, amp sims, studio monitors, pocket amps, etc. I certainly wasn’t. I think a simple setup to get you on the guitar as much a possible will more likely keep you going, especially in the early days.

After a while, if you’ve stuck at it, you might poke your head up and have a look around, and discover whole new worlds. I suppose whatever suits the individual - goal , lifestyle and budget wise - will determine where they go.
I eventually found my place with the S-Gear amp suite, Reaper, a Scarletc2i2, and some Rokit G5 monitors.
Apart from the great tones, for me it creates a great learning environment . I enjoy having all my playing and learning material at my fingertips. At times when I just want to chill out and play on the lounge etc, I’ve got a little NUX MightyPlug pocket amp, which is a great little unit. And of course, there’s always the acoustic.

Cheers, Shane

[adi_mrok]

As others said no right or wrong here, it’s sort of an argument that you shouldn’t start with an acoustic because it has thicker strings - no you should start with whatever feels the best way for you. Just if you can try not to start with something very limiting like cheapest guitar or cheapest amp possible, as most likely same as me you will get discouraged due to equipment limitations.

Is amp really needed these days for a beginner? Probably not. But doesn’t mean if one who starts wants an amp shouldn’t get it

[MAS4R]

To reiterate, this thread is not about how kids should start, that’s a separate topic, or how would-be artists should start, that is a separate topic as well. It is also not about what anyone SHOULD do. It is whether the common assumption that you NEED and amp to start holds water.

And it does not. You can still start with an amp. But the stigma against software comes from long-entrenched perceptions that a new player has no reason to share. For example, I cannot push any air without having my neighbors call the police or, more excitingly, my wife call it quits. I will gladly sell my house for one in the forest but that’s at least 15 years into the future.

My other point was stereo sound. How many people will sincerely prefer a mono boutique amp to good simulation and stereo sound when playing solo at home? But that was not an anti-amp point either. As my post said, you can get an ID COre stereo from Blackstar. For all of 200$ in the US. It is probably the single most cost effective solution with 2x5" speakers.

Who wants to play a JCM 800 at home at the minimum possible level? Raise your hands if you already have the coveted forest cabin!

As we said, for a beginner you can start any way you like but you don’t need an amp.

Now, since fellow forum members seem to want a debate, then we need something less subjective on the table

Here is my take then: all for the sake of having fun and putting useful information on the table for others to make up their own mind.

Where things are not so subjective is once you want VARIETY and QUALITY and EASE of use and acceptable COSTS all in one.

That’s where the amp is actually obsolete for home players.

A quality modeler runs you 1,000 to under 2,500$ in the US. That’s all. Try a skiing gateway for the cost of a Fractal FXIII or Kemper let alone a Fractal FM 3 or if you are into Boss, a GT 1000. Heck, a set of 4 tires would run me around 1,500$ installed nowadays.

And for that money, you get everything you may want. Yes, it is TOO EASY. But we said home players with jobs and possibly kids. Plenty of challenges to be had playing the darn thing anyway LOL.

Now, try that with amps. Of the amps I like, only the Orange Rocker can be used well at home volumes. Try a 5150 at home. A Dual Rectifier?

Even if you want to throw the money for half a dozen great amps, chances are one at best is suitable for home use. But with a top end modeler you can get any great sound at home levels.

I get it. It ain’t heroic. It ain’t glorious. But it is…the way to enjoy any great amp sounds at home?

You want it, you got it, now fire away!

Cheers!

[Majik]

@mattswain

I’d certainly agree that some of the modelling amps do also have around 1000 different settings that can leave you searching for the perfect tone that you never actually settle on. Again though, if you’re just starting, probably better focus on your playing than whether your amp has a good Marshall tone or not.

THIS!

Cheers,

Keith

[Guitarman64]

The original question and the comments and opinions are interesting to read. I’ve chosen a different path and started straight away with a cheaper modelling amp and graduated to tube amps within two years. I try to avoid using a computer for anything apart from recording. The same decisions applied years ago when my keyboard collection grew (much to my wife’s despair).
Personally, headphones or studio monitors and DAW plugins don’t work with me as well. Clearly, if you go for real amps, you need a location where you won’t annoy the neighbours (and family). Nevertheless, when a 12” speaker fills the room with some amazing AC/DC chord, I’m transported into another world. However bad I play, this sound and energy from a real amp and the feelings it releases in me, always motivates me to keep learning with Justin’s app day after day.
To answer the question “do you really need an amp?” I would conclude: probably not, but for some people it can really improve the experience of learning the e-guitar.

[Jozsef]

I mean, you may probably get away with a MIDI controller and some good guitar tones. Who really needs a guitar when starting out?

But on a serious note, everyone should start with an instrument and equipment they are really interested in and that will keep them motivated. On a separate note, I find it surprising how many people here who have an electric guitar have heard it only through headphones. I know everyone who lives with others needs to adjust to other people around them, but still… it’s like Monet got resurrected somehow and started to “paint” his pictures on a computer then printed them in high definition and exhibited those as “paintings”. Not like the real thing.

Either that or I’m just too old-school in my thinking. But to each their own.

To OP: you are right, total beginners who don’t even know if they’ll stick to a hobby should not spend a fortune on equipment.

[jjw]

@Jozsef

On a separate note, I find it surprising how many people here who have an electric guitar have heard it only through headphones. I know everyone who lives with others needs to adjust to other people around them, but still…

To me the sound coming out of the amp is much preferable to playing with headphones. I live in an apartment, but I don’t generally have the amp cranked up loud. On occasion, I do play a bit loud (not “moving air”, though). My neighbors have never complained.

An advantage of this setup (guitar on a stand in my living room, plugged into a modelling amp), is that it takes me literally 5 seconds to start playing.

Another advantage is that sometimes I want other people to hear what I’m playing. On occasion, an impromptu sing-along as occurred with my kids and their friends (awesome when it happens). Of course, I can plug headphones into the amp if I don’t want to disturb others (I rarely do, though. If quiet is needed when I want to play, I take my acoustic into the bedroom and close the door).

Finally, I work on a computer all day long and frankly, I enjoy getting away from it (and devices in general), when I play guitar.

There is one caveat here, though: I don’t care much about tone. I play mostly clean or with with some overdrive, but not heavy distortion. Also, I’m not trying to replicate any guitar tone that I hear on some song. Just getting in the ballpark is good enough for me. I figure the main thing I can do to make my music sound like (insert famous guitarist here) is to learn how to play the damn thing!

[math07]

That’s an interesting topic. I’ve been playing with Focusrite + Neural DSP amp sim for the past year. However, I need to change my cheap 10 years old computer speakers that I’m using.

I’d like to invest 500$-1000$ into either a real amp or studio monitors for my amp sim. I play at TV volume in my bedroom so I need sound clarity at low volume. I don’t mind being tied to my computer.

I was about to buy Yamaha THR30ii as it seems to be made for bedroom volume. But some internet reviews made me doubt as they seem to say that the Neural DSP software that I currently have has better quality amps than the Yamaha THR.

So maybe, I should get some studio monitors ? Or would there be a better investment amp at my budget ? I’m picky about sound quality so I want something that will last, instead of something that I’ll want to replace in 1 year and that performs well at low volume (no headphones).

[MAS4R]

I think that if you want TV volume levels that really rules out any tube amps. And when it comes to solid state, you have two questions to answer for yourself: do they really sound the same to you at very low volumes as otherwise? My Orange Crush needs to be at least at 9-10 o’clock to do anything and that is about as loud as home volumes go. Second, do you want mono sound? If you want an amp AND stereo, then Blackstar ID Core is the only match of which I am aware.

For longevity, that’s a good question when it comes to speakers. I have heard people blow away speakers when they use DAW direct and don’t pay attention to volumes. No idea what speakers.

I went through this recently so I can put it like this:

–lowest tier considered acceptable studio monitors, Mackie 5" and there is a Behringer model also at around 160$ in the US . Sterling from Guitar Center are reputed to be good BUT said not to last so, no.

–entry-level tier: Presonus 5BT which is what I got cause I want bluetooth to use them in different ways, Presonus 5 XT, JBL 305, Behringer Truth, and especially well-regarded are Kali LP 6.5".

–mid-tier: Adam Audio and others in the 400-600 range for 5" monitors. 8" are significantly pricier and people are quite divided on whether 8" or 5" is the minimum acceptable. I am fine with 5". The Yamaha 5" monitors can be polarizing.

The only amp exception that comes to mind that can be really good and yet also has 0.5W setting is the Orange Rocker 15 combo. However, 0.5W is pretty loud when maxed so…

But if I actually practiced with a band and also wanted the same amp for home use, I would definitely look very closely at the Rocker 15.

[SocratesDiedTrolling]

A whole lot of discussion here, and it’s been somewhat interesting seeing all of these perspectives. To offer my own two cents: I’m a relative beginner and, while I have an amp, I very rarely use it.

If someone wants an amp, some pedals, and whatever else makes them happy and excited to play… great, more power to them! That’s a great way to start playing guitar.

For me, it’s just not practical. I live in an apartment. To use my amp, without headphones, I literally have to turn the volume to zero on the clean channel, or around one, on the dirty channel, the lowest levels it will make noise. I own one pedal, a looper. Does the hobby of collecting pedals and amps seem fun to me? Sure it does, but, I can’t really afford it right now. Maybe someday. (I can, of course, use my amp with headphones, but I can also do that with my interface.)

On the other hand, I have an audio interface which only cost me $100, and some closed-back headphones which cost me $30 or so, so a total investment of $130. It was all fairly easy to set up. The interface came with a DAW and a bunch of basic effects, plus I’ve downloaded some more free ones. So, I have access to many different sounds, for much less money, than I do with my physical amp. It works well for me. So, that’s another way to be a beginner on electric guitar, and it may work well for many people. It works great for me. (Also, it gives me the ability to record to my computer, play around and edit audio… all fun stuff for some of us, which I couldn’t do with just my traditional combo amp.)

Another quiet way to practice is of course devices like the Fender Mustang Micro amp which I just got for $120, but haven’t used quite yet. I hear many people are happy with them, though. It can also be used to record to your computer, but I probably wont’ use that feature as I already have an interface.

All that to say, either way is fine. Whatever floats your boat. I think it’s an important point though that people don’t need a big boxy amp if they don’t want one. If they feel it’s more cost effective or interesting or fun to go the interface or micro-amp route, that’s fine too!

[math07]

Thanks @MAS4R and @SocratesDiedTrolling for the interesting recommandations

[MAS4R]

I never noticed the username, that’s hilarious

[Majik]

@MAS4R

If you want an amp AND stereo, then Blackstar ID Core is the only match of which I am aware

There’s also the Yamaha THR, Vox Adio, Positive Grid Spark, and Boss Katana Air.

I have a Yamaha THR and a Spark 40 and they both work very well at TV volumes (probably at around 40% volume) as well as being able to be turned up fairly loud. They’re nowhere near loud enough for full band rehearsal use, of course. All the above are decent stereo Bluetooth streaming speakers as well.

If you need something more like an amp, with the ability to be turned up loud for gigging or band rehearsals, then there’s plenty of choices, including the Boss Katana 50, Line 6 Catalyst, and Fender Mustangs. All of these have low power modes that will let you play a reasonable volumes whilst still sounding decent. Of course, they aren’t generally stereo, but most guitar amps aren’t. IMO the main benefit of being stereo is to act as a bluetooth speaker, which isn’t really the role of these amps. And, frankly, the stereo you are going to get from an amp with speakers that close is generally not that good.

I think the question of whether it’s worthwhile to play at such low volumes is an important one. For a start, there come a point where the string noise from even a solid-body electric starts to be louder than the amp. In that case, it may be better to use headphones.

Of course all of the above can take headphones as well, giving the option of speaker of headphones use.

Cheers,

Keith

[Lefteris]

@MAS4R

do they really sound the same to you at very low volumes as otherwise?

Based on my limited experience and recent research, the amswer is no. Nor do the valve amps with some exceptions (and again I can only speak for those I have tried.)
And I think the reason is that at low volumes they can’t drive a bigger speaker.

@MAS4R

Second, do you want mono sound? If you want an amp AND stereo, then Blackstar ID Core is the only match of which I am aware.

I suppose that as long as the total impedance is not less than the amp’s minimum required impedance, you could connect any amp with 2 speaker cabinets.

[Majik]

@Lefteris

I suppose that as long as the total impedance is not less than the amp’s minimum required impedance, you could connect any amp with 2 speaker cabinets.

Yes, but you won’t get stereo. You will get mono out of two speaker cabs.

But, the reality is, most guitar amps and rigs aren’t stereo, and most people don’t need it.

Cheers,

Keith

[Majik]

@Lefteris

Based on my limited experience and recent research, the amswer is no. Nor do the valve amps with some exceptions (and again I can only speak for those I have tried.)
And I think the reason is that at low volumes they can’t drive a bigger speaker.

There’s multiple reasons.

One is that if you just lower the volume, the way the human hearing system works means it sounds different, because our sensitivity to different frequency ranges is different. See The Wikipedia article on Equal Loudness Contour for details.

Note that some modern amps may adjust for this automatically. I believe the Boss Katana does.

Another is that we perceive higher volumes as “better”. An old hifi sales trick is to set the more expensive equipment slightly higher in the showroom so it sounds “better”. It only needs to be a few dB higher for this.

A third is that, when you get above a certain level, some of the sound of the speaker is transferred to the guitar body and strings. Of course, too much of this and you get feedback, but even before this level, you will get some transfer which will affect the sound. At lower levels you won’t get the same transfer.

A fourth is that a loud guitar amp physically moves the air to the extent you can feel it in your body a little, not just with your ears. Turn the volume down and you won’t get that feeling.

A fifth is that peripheral noises will be much more audible over a quiet guitar amp, including the sound of the pick on the strings. This will change how it sounds.

A sixth is that, the louder the amp is, the more it creates acoustic resonances in the room you are in. It may be that you tune the amp EQ to sound good at a higher volume, but when you turn it down, the EQ changes because it’s no longer exciting the room in the same way.

Cheers,

Keith

[MAS4R]

That’s a great reference post.

[mc]

I’d just add that Valve amps generally have a more noticeable sound difference at different volumes due to the actual valves.
Valves don’t have a linear response like solid state amps do, they generally start to ‘compress’ the sound at higher volumes, before you reach the point of breaking up. This means they usually go from quite a clean sound at low volumes, to breaking up at higher volumes.

I have a little valve amp, and I love the sounds you can get purely with a guitar and the amp settings.
There is just something nice about a good valve amp, but I would not recommend one for a beginner or somebody who needs to limit the volume.
A good modelling amp or mini-modelling headphone amp are better options.