The guy I bought it from wants to blame Audacity. If that is what it turns out to be Iāll need to find another free DAW I suppose.
hit up reaper or something see how it works.
and it shoudl work like a standard mic
which model of focusrite is it exactly?
Hi Mike,
I did a quick test and can confirm good level in Audacity using just the following signal path:
SM58->Scarlett 4i4 analogue input 2->Windows 11 PC USB input->Audacity
I just freshly installed Audacity so other than changing what input and output was selected in the audio settings, I left everything else as default.
I spoke directly into the mic (basically touching as I typically do if recording vocals with it) and had the Scarlettās input approx. 75% (almost clipping so probably couldāve dialed it back a little).
If your Clarette is a 2017 model then a possible difference I guess is that my Scarlett is about a year old 3rd gen so maybe there have been some improvements over the generations?
Hereās some screenshots in case useful:
Just reach out if you want me to test anything else or provide any other info 
Hi Jeff, I canāt thank you enough for this head to head comparison.
I hope my image gets attached properly. In the image the microphone slider control is at 100% in Audacity (same as yours I believe). All other settings are the same as yours as well, best I can tell.
In the top recording my Clarette Gain Knob is at 7.5 (mic nearly touching my lips and talking quite loud and firm).
Next recording is at 9.0
Last is at 10 (all the way up).
Based on this, it seems I would agree with your assessment. There has been a change in the Focusrite.
You, being miles ahead of me in the recording world, Iād like to ask a couple of questions.
The guy I bought this from is going to strongly suggest I get a pre-amp (he already mildly suggested it). IYO, is this a reasonable solution? I wonder based on these findings if I am just going to be plagued by this as I try to move forward with the AI.
Iād prefer to get my money back on this (maybe offer him some for his aggravation and take a percentage back of what I paid) and buy a Scarlette from Sweetwater (or similiar) and get online support and be able to return it if defective (doubt it will be).
If he doesnāt agree to my terms and I donāt think he will, Iām stuck with this and will need to go the pre-amp route I guess for now. Your opinion, would you be disappointed in this test result, or am I making too big a deal out of it and should just adjust accordingly using a pre-amp.
Thanks again Jeff, Iād be completely in the dark if you didnāt take the time!
I was seduced by the quality of the specs of C vs S and really donāt need it. Being a beginner my mistakes and lack of quality of playing swamps and gain Iād get from the old Clarette vs a new Scarlette anyway. I paid about as much as a new 2 channel Scarlette for this AI.
Thanks again
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It seems suspicious to me that you can get a good record level in Voice Recorder, but not in Audacity.
Is that correct?
If so, I think you do need to try a DAW (Audacity is a sophisticated audio recorder and editor, but itās not really a DAW).
Cheers,
Keith
Hi Keith, Thanks for the reply. The results from āsound recorderā was pretty similiar to Audacity. Iād have to have the gain knob pegged at 10 in order to get any usable volume. Once dropped to 9,8,7 etc the captured recording was cut in more than half.
Audacity is the first and only recording software (outside dabbling with GarageBand) I have used. If I must go to another DAW I will but I have grown pretty accustomed to Audacity and would be disappointed to have to go thru the learning curve on another application.
Iām open to suggestions though. Even willing to pay a bit for one if the value compared to free packages makes it worth it.
Do you have some wiggle between 9 and 10?
make sure you are singing loudly right in front of the mic etc when testing.
No not really. At 10 I can speak loudly into the mic and get a significant waveform with my mic almost touching my lips. At 9 I get maybe 25-45% of what I see at 10. Just a little bumps on the graph.
What I am learning as I go thru this process is that the SM58 (even in a fully good working mic/AI unit) the mic needs to be almost touching the singers lips. This has me wondering, is this the best mic for the singer/acoustic guitar player? I am a relative beginner/intermediate player. Even with a good stand this appears itāll be difficult getting used to. Especially if I am reading lyrics and chords if I donāt them have committed to memory.
Might there be a better microphone selection for me? I have heard condensor mics can be difficult and highly sensitive to things. I was told āthey never seem to act the same way twiceā by a sound engineer who does this for a living. Which is why I went with the SM58. It seems to come highly recommended.
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for the update. Yeah looking at the screenshot you took, it does seem unusually low. And I suspect youāre right that the seller wonāt be too interested in a return 
So, on to other options I guess!
In terms of expertise, I would certainly defer to other far more experienced folk here, there is a huge amount of knowledge in the community In fact @Majik is one of those experts I would lean on to get advice in this area! There are also others who regularly record the same setup as you, i.e. playing acoustic with vocals, so there will be plenty of tips to seek out from them too, Iām sure 
However a couple of thoughts from meā¦
The link above that @RobDickinson shared to the Focusrite website discussing dynamic mic level issues seems a good starting point for seeking out an in-line preamp.
Also, have you considered getting something like the TC Helicon Mic Mechanic 2? This should achieve what you want around level but also provides the ability to add some reverb & delay to your vocals (if thatās your thing). I use one, after having it recommended from other community members, and love it
Finally, have you tried using the gain setting on the track in Audacity to boost the output of that track to an acceptable level? Not the ideal solution I suppose, but could suffice until you can justify spending some more money? Hereās an example where Iāve recorded at a low level with the output set to default, then a second shot with 12dB gain added to the track showing a better output level:
I hope this helps
Cheers,
Jeff
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It seems that low input gain and āgain bunchingā is a characteristic of the Clarett interfaces.
See the following thread:
https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1387408-focusrite-clarett-preamps-low-gain.html
Itās notable that the Clarett is considered the higher-end interface in the Focusrite range. Itās not uncommon in more āprofessionalā audio interfaces, especially older models, for them to be designed to be used with external pre-amps. More consumer-oriented audio interfaces tend to not need that
There is a response from Focusrite in that thread where they mention using a CL-1. Thatās a Cloudlifter mic booster (basically a form of preamp), but that costs almost as much as you paid for the Interface.
Personally, at that price, I would be tempted to sell the Clarett on (you may get most of your money back) and buy a more recent model consumer-level audio interface which will probably give you better results.
However, there are less expensive mic boosters out there, which may be worth trying, such as this one:
If you do decide to get a new audio interface, I highly recommend the Behringer UMC series like the UMC202HD: they tend to be a slightly higher spec. than the Focusrite equivalent, for less money.
Cheers,
Keith
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Not used Audacity for around 9 years as I moved to Reaper not long after I started recording. As @Majik Keith said it is more a mixer not a DAW but got me started. Another option would be to add a Limiter plugin to the track and boost the volume that way. Not ideal but another option.
I would certainly check the Claretteās output with headphones as @nzmetal Jeff suggested.
FWIW I use an SM58 for vocals with both a Xenyx X1204 mixers and a UMC1820 AI and have no issues with levels. Although I prefer to get up close and personal, I still get a strong level a few inches back but it is easier to drift of axis, so make sure your mic position is right and you are singing/talking into the sweet spot.
If you decide to replace the Focusrite take a good look at Behringer. Never had an issue with any of their gear (bar an early UMC22 that had very low output) and they are a darn site cheaper than some of the more commonly promoted brands.
On the DAW front. The switch from Audacity was not too difficult and there are some great Reaper tutorial out there and also quite a few folk here use it. Similar to the AI situation, its a lot cheaper than some of the more promoted DAWs out there, that often come free with AIs and AMPs and then need upgrading at cost !
My 2 cts but get some headphones asap even cheapies and that will likely confirm what is going on.
Best of luck.
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Yes, definitely. Headphones are a must if you want to multi-track or record yourself playing over backing tracks anyway.
I agree switching from Audacity to a DAW shouldnāt be that hard. In my experience, the concepts are similar, but the workflow on DAWs tends to be better.
The DAW I use, and recommend, is Ardour (ardour.org) which is an open-source DAW.
It has a free trial and the ready-to run version is available for a one-off donation ($45 is recommended as that entitles you to upgrades) or a monthly donation starting from $1 per month.
Cheers,
Keith
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Thanks for the reply and suggestions. I think I am going to hang onto the interface where it is not ābrokenā but just difficult. Also Iām a lousy salesman, I have a tendency to always pay full price on the buy side and nearly give things away on the sell side 
. My wife can attest to that.
Where I like and have grown accustomed to Audacity, I think, at least for time being, I am going to stick with that as well. Which means I need a preAmp of some kind. There are some between the two extremes of high end and low end. There is a Triton Audio FEThead for example. Itās inline. What I am finding a bit difficult to get answered though is whether it needs phantom power when in line with the SM58??
I believe it does. FETs need power but very limited power is required. But I wouldnāt want to try it without a definitive answer, I wouldnāt want to damage either my mic or AI.
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Yes, it does. Donāt worry, itās actually quite difficult to damage things with phantom power. The unit specifically states it does not pass phantom power to the mic, anyway.
Cheers,
Keith
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Next on my list of add-ons is separate mic for the guitar. I was going to go with the SM57, but considering Iāll probably have the same problem with the 2nd channel and the SM57, I am now rethinking and considering a condenser mic for the guitar. My thoughts are I wonāt have the same problem as with the dynamic mic and therefore wonāt need a pre-amp. Is that a reasonable expectation?
Thanks,
āMike
Possibly not.
If the AI is goosed the problem will still be there. A condenser may increase the level but its not guaranteed. You need to get those headphones first and check the FRs direct monitoring and as @Majik Keith said you will need them going forward. If that unit is toast first point of call would be a new AI. Then you can merrily go 58 & 57 if thatās your choice.
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Much appreciate all the great replies here. Thanks, I felt lost when this first began, I really feel l was on my own. But I feel like Iāve come up the learning curve thanks to you all!
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No problem Mike, I was asking similar questions over a decade ago and immediately felt I was in a place where folks not only wanted to help but had the knowledge to help !
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Again, much gratitude for all the thoughtful replies. As any good deed needs to be punished, I put the pieces together with I presently have to work with and ran a quick (or not so quick) experiment.
Steps:
Downloaded a customizable backing track - edited out the 3 electric guitars.
Downloaded just the vocal from the same track as a separate track.
Hooked up new (or not so new) Clarette AI, positioned new SM58 on stand.
While listening to the 2 tracks I downloaded I sang along with vocal while listening to the tracks via my laptop headphone (I do have a wired headphone but it uses the small trrs jack. wondering if I can get an adapter that will fit the AI which uses a trs).
Donāt know the lyrics nearly well enough so had to read along using UltimateGuitar as I sung along.
Repositioned SM58 somewhere close to 12th fret. Deleted the muted the vocal backing track and used my vocals just created.
Again, donāt know the chords very well so had to read along on UltimateGuitar (using barre chords for all F to G progression).
Finished. No EQ or compression or any other adjustments. Just a very little volume adjustments across the tracks. Turned the instrument track way down so that it is lightly in the background. Adjust my guitar to be somewhat balanced against my vocal. So now the output it just about all me and my new equipment.
This is all without yet using a pre-amp and using Audacity. So as we all talked about, I had very little head room on the vocals and the guitar.
My conclusion - disclaimer - This is just an experiment. Not something I would post on AVOP or any other place. I was inspired by Justinās intro to his lesson on this song, I thought Justin did a super job. Made me want to try it. So this is not a self-critique in any way on my performance. I know I have a long long way to go, donāt know the lyrics or the chords well at all. Having said thatā¦(comparing my past setup which was usb podcast type mic directly into the laptop) I liked the way the guitar sounded (mistakes ignored). It sounded less heavy, crisper maybe. My voice is still my voice but the quality of the lyric is better (MUCH better signal to noise for example). I feel like it has potential.
Lessons learned, I learned a lot about mics. I never knew why performers would hold a mic so close to their lips when my usb mic works feet away. Now I know. I have to get better with staying more still with the guitar. An upbeat song like this makes you want to move, I kept drifting to-from the mic from position, even bumping it a moving from time to time (probably clear from the recording that I was doing that).
probably silly choosing a 6 minute song but what the heck.
I think its heavily clipped which I hope I do something about with the inline preAmp.
This was fun, I enjoyed it. Long journey ahead.
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Good on ya, Mike! Nice way to test out the new kit 
Seems like youāve achieved a very useable setup to get some recording underway. Mistakes aside, like you say, your vocals seem pretty well balanced with guitar. Plenty of fun to be had digging in with what youāve got now and worry about further upgrades down the track
Yes, 100% you can. Thatās what I use. It will only cost you a couple of dollars, much better than getting new headphones
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