Guitar Effects - Hardware or Software?

Yeah I think the physical tactile nature of individual pedals are great. It’s makes things like order of effects obvious and extremely intuitive.

But it’s definitely going to be more expensive than a multi-effects unit. If you want amp modelling too, then you almost certainly want to get a multi-effects unit.

Also, many souls (and their cash) have been lost to the rabbit hole of colourful little boxes :smiling_imp:

I’m not convinced that article is entirely right, although it does say that tolerance varies, and people notice it or are more intolerant of it with IEMS compared to wedge monitors (which, in theory, should always have worse latency than IEMs).

I’m not sure it destroys your ability to play on the beat with a drummer, but I definitely think there’s a point where it starts to affect it. I think most musicians can adjust (which is, effectively, what we are constantly doing with bell ringing as we have a latency of around 1 full second and have to wait around 2 seconds before we can make adjustments for a particular error, as there are two strokes) but, for a normal musical instrument, I think it starts to feel a little off.

As an example, I’ve done some online jamming with Jamulus where the latency was around 30-40ms. It was VERY obvious, even to the point of being clearly audible between the local string noise and the sound. You do learn to adjust to the sound not being exactly when you pluck the string and, ultimately, end up playing everything slightly earlier. However, the adjustment isn’t entirely comfortable.

Incidentally, the advice for this situation is to wear good headphones and to not monitor locally, but monitor the delayed sound.

And I think this is the point: it’s not that you can obviously hear a difference, but that there’s something about the feel that’s not the same.

I think there’s also a psychological thing where our brains are tuned for, and used to, the speed of sound and, combined with the other acoustic affects, anticipate the latency if we know where the real amp is. Delay sensitivity is also a very important part of our hearing, along with other acoustic effects, and influences our ability to locate sounds.

When we wear headphones, there’s a different acoustic environment to using an amp in a room: the speakers are right next to your ears (often in the ear canal) and there’s no room ambience.

I think it’s interesting that Boss, with their Waza Air headphones, seems to have successfully created a capability where they’ve transformed a headphone experience into something that has more of the feel of an amp in a room. I suspect they’ve used some ambisonic techniques to achieve this, which use, amongst other methods, tiny variations in the delay of the signal to change our perception of the location of the sound source.

Cheers,

Keith

Another positive side for the audio interface setup:

  • If you want to play without disturbing people in your house without headphones, I noticed that studio monitor speakers project a lot less volume in the other rooms than an actual amp.
  • I can play guitar when someone is sleeping in the other room much more easily than with a boss katana. I hear the sound well, but she doesn’t hear it when the door is closed.
    Example : Presonus Eris 4.5
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Gotcha.

I would start here.

Concern about processing latency for tech systems is overrated (even if you can tell the difference). You always need to compare it to the speed of sound through air.

It takes about 30ms for sound to travel 10m, so even a low latency amp has real latency to the ears.

…it’s all a digression from hardware vs software anyway. IMHO latency just shouldn’t be one of the factors in deciding “hardware” (which in the case of multifx units, are running software on them anyway) vs PC/Mac plugins.

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Wrt latency, it’s both “a thing” and “not a thing” IMO. It’s correct that you (or I at least) feel latency when it’s too high… like in the 20-30ms range. Then it’s unplayable for me. However, you simply have to install the drivers that comes with your AI and understand that you have to pick the ASIO driver (on Windows at least, not sure about Linux or Mac), and then you generally don’t have to worry about it. Buffer sizes etc I would consider fine tuning, which you can do once you’re more comfortable with the whole thing.

As for hardware vs software, obviously a personal preference. I understand both sides, and use both myself. I understand how a real amp with real effects can sound more “real” or “better” to many. That comes down to air being moved, sound coming from a real guitar speaker (rather than full-range studio monitor - or, for many even worse, headphones) and the fact that the sound is not (generally) projected directly into your face or ears. For many the “amp in a room” sound really means hearing a reverberated sound of your guitar, bouncing off walls. The direct tone will hit you in the back, or knees…

But I think the software solution makes for a better practice setup! I’m a believer in the value of frequently recording yourself to monitor progress, and even if you don’t want to record… for me effective practice is playing a lot of songs, either playing over the actual song or using backing tracks. For me, that is so much more easy to do with a software setup than hardware. Balancing volume between the backing track and a real amp is just way harder for me. And you’ll need to be at the PC for that kind of practice anyway to be able to adjust tempo of what you’re playing over, mark up something for transcription etc etc.

So for me - practice will always be at a PC, using (at least partially) a software solution. Then I play my loud amps with the band.

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Thanks man! That’s awesome that it can also be connected to the pc… Do you however experience any latency when connecting to the DAW in your PC? As in, is it good for playing along to backing tracks and record yourself or does it get a bit messy with some latency/delay

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Almost every multifx system out there can be connected to a PC via USB and used as an audio interface.

This gives you the flexibility to practice at a computer using software, or to practice away from your computer with just the multifx system (and appropriate headphones or speakers).

When you do connect to a computer, you get nearly zero latency monitoring (hearing yourself play) plus you can play backing tracks from the computer. Some multifx systems let you connect a tablet or phone via USB or Bluetooth so you don’t even have to use a computer for backing track playback.

No more than with any other audio interface.

It’s just as good as any other audio interface.

In fact, it’s arguably better as the monitoring has negligible latency regardless of your computer capability or settings.

Cheers,

Keith

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Exactly what Keith said, it’s very good.
Regarding what I play into, it’s not a computer I use my iPad and GarageBand, it’s easy to do and works well - judge for yourself! This is done using Bass, Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar and Drums from Sonicake and GarageBand plus a low frequency hum from a GarageBand synth for extra ambience.

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Latency is a matter of degree and personal preference. Any bit of noticeable latency is unacceptable to me. I switched to a Mac & Garageband from a more powerful PC and Reaper because of latency issues (yes I tried the THINGS and it was still unacceptable). Now I’m cooking with grease. :slight_smile:

Darrell

Very pretty piece. Enjoying the ambience.

Brian

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Yeah but how to you connect your guitar to the ipad? Does it require a special kind of audio interface? Sorry I’m a complete noob

It connects via a USB cable because it is an audio interface.

Almost every modern modelling amp or multifx unit on the market including Fender Mustang and Boss Katana amps can be connected directly to a PC via USB and recorded without needing a separate audio interface.

Cheers,

Keith

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Kieth, I think they were asking specifically about connecting a guitar to an iPad. I think this is only possible on more recent iPads with a USB-C input by using an adapter with a phono jack.

I’m not sure why you would need a phono jack.

For the iPad, specifically, I believe it can use any audio interface that is Class Compliant. Multifx systems are, increasingly class-compliant which means you can plug them directly into an iPad (or Android device). All you would need is a suitable USB cable, just like with a PC.

Cheers,

Keith

The interface needs a phono jack to connect to your guitar. Every electric guitar I’ve ever seen has a ¼" phono jack as its output.

The question was “how do you connect your guitar to the iPad?”

And your answer was “it connects via a USB cable”.
That would be fun to watch.

@soumil0702 said they were a complete noob. You may be assuming a level of knowledge they don’t possess.

hi @soumil0702

You have a set of questions here that may need a combined response. Let’s see if I can make some sense of stuff for you.

Kind of, maybe :slight_smile: - the iPad can use the on-board mic, but that doesn’t sound so good. You can use any audio interface with a USB (see here for mine). Keith mentioned this in his response, but I am giving you some real examples in the link (another forum question response).

If you want to play through the iPad and listen via bluetooth headset - just don’t. The latency in Bluetooth is annoyingly high. A great deal of this is because the Bluetooth standard is based on low power that is unreliable and sound is buffered on the playback device because dropouts are expected, so that means there is a delay for the size of the buffer. Many buffers are around 1/4 to 1/2 second and that is really too much to play and listen with comfort.

If you are just trying to play and capture with the iPad (and NOT listen while you play), then the links for hardware I have above are the sort of thing you can use.

Personally, when I use Garage Band, I play through a 1/4 inch to USB interface, and listen with my wired headset on a laptop. I do not suffer the bluetooth latency in the headset that way. I find the Garage Band interface a bit confusing, but I can eventually get what I am after and it does sound good. I take this with me out in the back yard on a nice day and it works well - just a laptop, guitar, headphones, and 1/4 inch to USB interface. I can carry all this in one trip.

I have done little recording this way, but I see how to do it and it looks like it should be easy to figure out.

If you are looking at some dedicated software specifically for guitar recording and effects, then I suggest you start doing a search on the forums here. There have been a lot of questions and responses related to that. Narrow down your question and we can help better.

I my be wrong, but I got the impression he was asking about @DarrellW 's setup, and whether a separate audio interface was required, in addition to the Sonicake Matribox effects processor.

The setup @DarrellW has, if I understand it correctly, is:

Guitar --(guitar cable)–> Sonicake Matribox --(USB cable)–> iPad

The Sonicake Matribox has the guitar jack and is also the audio interface.

Cheers,

Keith

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Here’s a pic of my setup. I can record my guitar to a Garageband track with this setup, but TBH I have no real experience with it. This setup drains the iPad battery very quickly. You would need a USB-C hub to enable the iPad charger to be connected if you wanted to use this setup for any length of time.

Nice set up :+1:

I think the answer very much depends on which iPad you have and what peripherals you own.

For example, my iPad is an iPad Pro with USB-C and is permanently docked on an Apple magic keyboard stand/case. I can charge my iPad via the keyboard (which uses pins/magnets on the back of the iPad) and connect my interface to the iPad’s port. It has to be said that a USB-C hub as you mention would be a much cheaper option but I own the keyboard case anyway.

It’s more complicated if you own an iPad that still has a Lightning port. I think there is a dongle that you can get that has a USB-A port for the interface and accepts power but I couldn’t guarantee the success of this approach.

One tip for iPad Garageband users… there is an option to tick that allows you to run Garageband in the background. This can be really handy if you want to have another app such as Moises or Notes open so you’ve get prompts to help you remember the song you’re playing

Also for anyone doing this, make sure the firmware of your interface is up to date. You may require a Mac or PC for this depending whether the manufacturer allows firmware updates via a web page or not

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