Got it!. I will consolidate this during the next couple of days! - Have spend some hours on triads today, how lucky is that 
Thnx, appreciate it. I promise I will get all this tied together!!! That will be my gift back for now, to grasp and understand this stuff. 
Finished grade 3 in music theory at first go today, early this morning 
Atm going through the borrowed chords before bed time. ā¦luv it!!! Excellent stuff. 
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Oh yes. Now I recall it. Justin talked about Bach and how he used one scale downwards and another upwards, as Bach didnāt like the sound when going the opposite way with the same scaleā¦ right. So it is natural like that.
So much to digest. - But as I am one that read the manual more than once, I will go over the same again and again until it penetrate and get stuck
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Right. The E Dorian use the same notes as in D Major, and E Mixolydian the same note as in A major. - The E is the second in D major and E is the fifth in A major.
oh man. Time to sleep. What an amazing day it have been ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz
Dangā¦canāt sleep when mind is like thisā¦
Both of those end with a D# and both modes have a flatten 7. So both end up with a D. Thatās why you wrote as you didā¦ The Dorian have a flatten 3rd also. The Gā¦ but doesnāt matter in this case as we are interested in the D
The E Major have - E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#
E Dorian flatten 3rd and 7th which then gives E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D
E Mixolydian flatten 7th which then gives E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D
Have a feeling I almost got tricked there. 
- 
---- Think I need to figure something smart out for Mr. Richard. He need a challenge now and then also 
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Was actually looking for songs in F key. But then stumbled into to this:
The Beatles - Hey Jude, actually uses Dmaj7 and the D, Dmaj7, D7 - the āsandwich between D and D7ā is being used-
Progression 1: A, D, Dmaj7, D7, G
Progression 2: A, D, Dmaj7, D7, A7, D, C
Also good for inspiration looking at how others use a chord or a set of chords. Yet another pearl. amazing.
Found in Justin Songs.
@Richard_close2u - You answered all my questions and guided me in the right directions and much more than that. I have plenty now, in order to move on and now know where to put my effort the next week or five. I am so grateful for that. You are a game changer for sure!!! - I will post my progress on this and other stuff in my learning log, when I have trained, studied and digested and cry out for help if I get stuck again. Really appreciate your time, effort and kindness! 
Both yourself and @Richard_close2u are speaking pigeon to me however youāre both clearly exceptional players. Any chance either of you have some uploaded clips of yourselves playing? Would love to watch.
Cheers.
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Hi Cate, Richard is indeed a very good player, but even better teacher 
Youāve been playing guitar for longer than Kim! He has however been ātouched by fireā in the form of music theory and how chords/scales fit together. If you take it slowly, it is well worth reading through Richardās excellent series on the circle of 5ths. Itās an area that is easy to get into but just keeps giving
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So Brian, if that was an attempt to make me feel betterā¦ā¦not so much 
Iām both gobsmacked and impressed with Kimās knowledge considering heās newer than me. Iām also feeling rather inferior now with my lack of any knowledge.ā¦ā¦ which eventually I hope to increase
Thanks Brian 
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Ah, the old comparison chestnut 
Itās funny the way anyone who knows more than me is a genius and anyone who knows even less than me must be thick 
(ditto for playing)
You actually donāt have to be able to even play a note to become good at music theory/appreciation.
Just enjoy what youāre doing. Simple.
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Welcome to my world. I have been comparing myself to everyone all my life. Iād love to know more about the theory side of it but unfortunately when reading things these days, most goes in one eyeā¦.out the other. My piano teacher when 9 (for all of 4 months or so before I quit for some reason) told my parents, I was essentially crap at reading music but had a great ear for it so if only the ear could strum and finger pick, Iād be a happy girl. As it goes, Iām now at the stage of being happy to know the basics, enjoy what I can do and accept what I canāt ā¦ā¦ which may be a lot but hey, weāre not all cut out to be the John Butlers of the world but thank you for your support and encouragement Brian
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Just woke up after an amazing wonderful sleep.
Not sure where I heard, if it was from Justin or elsewhere, (canāt link the reference) that said, there are some song writers who donāt play or play very little(something along those lines), but write beautiful music. - Canāt confirm on that and forgot where I heard.
Also it is way faster learning the theory, than actual play it. Being good at playing an instrument does takes some time, no way around it. - Also when spending +5 hours per day in average since day 1, I should at least have some kind of progress in some areas
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My conclusion on ear and theory: Ear compose the music, theory writes it.
I really donāt have that much knowledge, but I somehow cracked the code the other day, when getting an overview of scales and modes. That just propelled me through grade 3 in the practical music theory lessons. Now into grade 4 and learning about triads, while of course looking at the stuff Richard have presented here. - Richard is on another league. He is a true treasure!!!
As a Buddhist, I know we are all equal, no matter the circumstances. We just carry with us a different ābackpackā , I am good at math, pretty decent at chess, luv reading history and investigate and have studied and trained stuff that actually help me a great deal on the theory. All can increase their capacity, intelligence etc. Just a matter of where and on what we use our time and effort.
They just made theory so difficult and over-complicated, so they could make a job out of it. If it was simplified, there would be no reason for a teacher and they would have to find other work Another thing when reading about scales and modes and history on the wiki pages, you quickly notice, they use the same few notes and shuffle them around. As said, they make simple things complicated - Kind of teasing but also there are something to it. But getting the overview and roughly understanding of scales and mode can be a breakthrough, as it have done for me. The details comes as we go along, the overview is key. Else hard to see the forest as the trees are in the way
It somehow does makes life much more easy and enjoyable, doesnāt? We have been raised to constantly compare ourself to others, And taking the time and effort spend on compare and use for something much more fun and interesting is a win win for us
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Reading all that about you is so enviable. You obviously have a true sense of calm, particularly embracing Buddhism into your life. I admire your ability to understand and absorb so much. My once young self was ever so much the investigator. Always needing to know everything and immediately, exploring even more (hence packing my bags and taking off abroad for 6yrs - no plans, just go), however that 9yr old has fast realised her potentials since starting this guitar journey and that is, Iāll have to be content to play camp fire music.
Thank you for giving so much time and insight into your life Kim. Youāre very much the kind of person Iād love to sit with and pick your brain.
Apologies if I get this wrong but Nembutsu
Nope, got that wrong I believe. Thu-chi-che
Again, my apologies if Iām offensive with my attempts.
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Wow, didnāt know that term/ word: Nembutsu
How amazing beautiful that is! Just learned something new already. Only at my second mug of tea.
No, you didnāt get anything wrong. Both are correct!
I study and practice within an old tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. But please donāt tell anyone, itās a secret
Please, I am just a beginner on the path, just like with the guitar journey. But I am trying my best! Canāt do more than that and else I try my best to enjoy and have fun
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Well, you definitely have a beautiful path ahead of you. I always felt like I was born in the wrong country. Somewhere calming and peaceful is more my thing.
Thanks for your time Kim. I appreciate your generosity
Oh, and my lips are sealed. Your secret is safe with me.
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Letās look at the notes set out as though on the strings or a TAB.
Dmaj7 to Dm
F# ā F (down a semitone)
C# ā D (up a semitone)
A ā A is static
D ā D is static
Any movement is just a semitone leading to root and minor 3rd of the new chord and there is some pleasing contrary motion.
Movements of a semitone give a strong sense of satisfaction on arrival.
That said, although there is resolution, when played in a short loop neither chord truly feels like a static home chord to my ears.
If using this chord change, one way would be to have it within a bigger progression and use it as a major 4 to minor 4 (Dmaj7 rather than just a D major in this case). That would place it within the key of A major. So try building a bigger progression such as:
| A | E | A | F#m | Bm | Dmaj7 | Dm | A |
Dmaj7 to Am
F# ā E (down a tone)
C# ā C (down a semitone)
A ā A (static)
D ā E (up a tone)
X ā A (5th string is not played on Dmaj7)
The movement is in different directions with only a single semitone change that lands on the minor 3rd of the new chord. It should sound good but is not overloaded with irresistible voice leading. Nor does it sound complete to my ears.
Once again I wouldnāt necessarily think of Dmaj7 as the tonic here as that would make Am a borrowed v chord (where the dominant V of A major would normally be). So perhaps place it as a borrowed IVmaj7 in the key of A minor and build a progression to fit it within such as:
| Am | G | Am | C | Am | Em | Dmaj7 | Am |
Dm to Dmaj7
F ā F# (up a semitone)
D ā C# (down a semitone)
A ā A is static
D ā D is static
On the face of it, that all seems interesting and should sound good. Well the exact same loop as above will reveal it, as it simply bounces between the two chords.
Does it sound weird? Maybe it is hard to tell as it is a closed loop. Within the context of a larger progression would it?
Iām struggling to think of an example of a piece of music that has a chord make that sort of movement.
The words may have suited your reaction to the sound but when Cole Porter wrote āhow strange the changeā he completed the line with āfrom major to minorā and the music followed suit. He did not write āfrom minor to majorā.
Maybe you could try things and find a suitable progression where it sounds killer.
Am to Dmaj7
E ā F# (up a tone)
C ā C# (up a semitone)
A ā A (static)
D ā E (up a tone)
A ā X (5th string is not played on Dmaj7)
The same loop as above bounces between them.
There may be a theoretical rules explanation for this. Which I will put forward - knowing that rules in music can be ignored if it sounds good.
Dmaj7 is a major type chord. You will find both A minor and D major triads in the key of G. As notes in a previous comment however, in the key of G, the D major is the 5 chord and when extended must necessarily become D7 not Dmaj7. Thatās the rules! Compare and contrast these two simple progressions. one will sound fine, the other somewhat meh!
A diatonic progression in G:
| G | C | Am7 | D7 |
A non-diatonic progression in G using Dmaj7:
| G | C | Am7 | Dmaj7 |
Wow. That covered a lot of ground and I think I still need to go back up and address a number of questions still unanswered.
Interesting!
Yes, it wants to go somewhere. Itās like crying for a continuation. Itās likeā¦please guide me, I want to go somewhere. - The Dm has the same kind of feeling to it as the Dmaj7. Am can be used as end tone/sound chord in different ways. Itās like feeling home in its own somehow.
I was playing through the things on guitar. When presented as you have done hereā¦wow. Things become so clear. Fingerpicking Dmaj7 and then strum on Dm or Amā¦ wow. That have such cool effect on top of it.
Just for fun I tried out something.
Em6 - xx2020 both as before and after a Dmaj7. Works for my ears. E6sus? xx2220 to Dmaj7 also seem to work. Esus? xx2200 seem little weird, but could act as a surprise
But else start with xx2200 then xx2020 then xx0222(Dmaj7) then Dm and Am and back in known waters. - Maybe better xx2220 - xx2020 - xx0222(Dmaj7) then Dm and Am -------
Dm can go to xx2220 and loop is created and also have both enter and exit.
Wowā¦ and can be taken even further within that. Holy moly
Reading through your post here is amazing and listen to those loops you created are beyond fantastic. I am already dreaming of a little piano thingy something, like I imagine you useā¦ Now I am getting into the rabbit holeā¦ no longer able to be savedā¦ hope I donāt end up like Mozart or Satie unless I have created a piece firstā¦ But wow what a universe that is opening up hereā¦ 
I am thrilledā¦
Trying to really understand what you write and also starting to get some ideas from thatā¦ how and where to look for strange but maybe good soundsā¦ how to dive into the different chords and change a little thing here and thereā¦ how to keep the tonic in mind and how the tonic or key can change while still in connection with the rest - you are the most wonderful help a crazy dude like me can ever wish forā¦ You are truly a guide ā¦
Like being a baby learning to walkā¦ this is crazy, mind blowing stuffā¦ no wonder you love this world!!! I totally understand why you luv what you are doingā¦
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You are adding an extra note in here. you hit string 4, 3, 2, and then 3,2,1? Thatās at least what it sound to me. 10 sec in.
Roflā¦ xx2220 is an A without 5th string open. I didnāt notice until now. I just listen to stuff. Thatās hilarious
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xx2020 goes well into Dmaj7 and then there are choices to move other places. I will continue with this. I like it can go into the other chords I like Am, Dm and E or Em, both Eās work fine with the other 2.
D to Dmaj7 is nice also and feels natural.
Somehow I like xx2020 to Dmaj7 better. There is something.
Also Dmaj7 to D7 seem better choice for now than the Dmaj7 to Dm, but depends on other things.
Amazing how those few strings and frets can produce so many variations. I am certainly moving in the right directions when coming to composing somethingā¦ at least something.
I will continue fiddle around with this. I am starting to get a feel for it and will use both theory and ear as guides and all your help @Richard_close2u . My full mug of tea is cold. No food yet today, need to do cookingā¦ oh myā¦wish I didnāt had to eat and stuffā¦ oh wellā¦
PS. Is it in Guitar Pro 8 you are creating those samples??? If so, I am on it right away! No need piano then or some keyboard thingy. Just bought Guitar Pro 8. - I am hooked
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Your memory is probably of Justin discussing the melodic minor scale - a specific scale that has different intervals ascending and descending.
RE: Dmaj7 in a modal setting ā¦
I gave two specific examples where Dmaj7 would fit well in a piece of modal music. In recent installments of the Modes topic I discussed modal āprogressionsā and how they tend to concentrate on just a very few, carefully selected chords. In the two examples, Dmaj7 would be a good fit within a two or three chord vamp in E Dorian or E Mixolydian.
Try these for size.
E Dorian Vamp.
E Mixolydian Swamp
As said above, there are two occurrences of maj7 within any diatonic set of chords. Which means there are two within any modal set also. Here is a chart showing their position for six modes. If you are exploring, use this, along with knowledge of modal progressions, to have fun.
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