Well, this is interesting though… I have been listening to the Huberman Lab podcasts a bit recently (after Justin recommended them) and if you agree with what he (and the most up to date scientific research data) says, then playing it slow, perfectly may not be the best way to learn. In fact, I believe Justin acknowledges this in his discussion on Huberman that he may have been leading us astray after all.
In the podcast below, if I understand it correctly, Huberman essentially explains that the faster way to learn a physical skill (such as running through a scale on a guitar), you are best (after becoming acquainted with what to do i.e. not being completely new to something) to undertake your practice at a speed slightly faster than you can do it comfortably and then continue to increase that speed once you hit only say 25-30% accuracy (to ensure you maintain a high rate of errors). You need to run these repetitions as many times as you can in the time you have available and then afterwards relax your mind for a period to let it replay what you just did. During that replay and subsequent replays whilst you sleep, your brain will trash the incorrect behaviours and retain the good ones (based on the dopamine spikes you received when getting it right or at least partially right). It is important that you don’t do this practice mindlessly, but instead remain focused on a specific aspect of it, that way ensuring your brain sees it as important and you get the appropriate dopamine hits. It apparently doesn’t matter what aspect of the practice you focus on as long as you focus on something and your brain/nervous system will figure out the rest for you subconsciously. The idea is to eventually hand all the process over to your central pattern generators at a high cadence so it can run through it for you without the need to think about it and also do it a fast rate.
It is very important to note that making errors is actually critical to learning a new skill. If you do it so slowly that you don’t make mistakes, your brain won’t get the appropriate signals to determine what is right and wrong, and therefore “know” to keep the right behaviours and lose the wrong.
The high repetition rate is also stressed as being vital to increasing the rate of obtaining the new skill. More errors = more data for your brain to figure out what actions need to changed.
In saying this, one thing I felt he didn’t touch on enough was the need to be aware of what the correct behaviour was that you are trying to learn. If you are not sure you are doing it right in the first place, you might be giving incorrect signals about what is right and wrong. Therefore, I think getting the correct instruction and then performing the action slowly and precisely initially maybe of great benefit at the early stage. However after that, let loose!
As per @stitch, this is an important piece. True to most things, the answer isn’t a concrete thing.
I think (being a neurologist, but not a specialist in motor learning), we need to be able to slowly and accurately make the correct motions, then we need to push ourselves to the limit of our abilities, only to return to the place they are correct to reinforce them.
I’m with you on this Jeff. I don’t subscribe to the play it perfectly slow before you go faster thing.
Sure, know what “correct” sounds like. But making mistakes is part of learning. I go through times where I push speed beyond what I can do cleanly to see what it feels like. It’s no excuse for being sloppy all the time, of course, but it’s part of learning.
Justin even talks about this in his lessons, early ones (forcing chord changes) and it was part of a recent one about how to learn - the one he mentioned Huberman.
You only need to look how how children learn, or even how adults learn other activities.
I think the play it perfect slow mantra gets taken a bit far. Don’t be fast and messy, and wrong… but if you want to speed up I reckon you have to push beyond the comfort zone, which means mistakes.
I feel I have slowly, carefully played stuff over and over to get it just right then tried increasing the speed but always hit a barrier that I can’t seem to cross, almost like I need to relearn how I have been doing it in order to get past. I think I remember Troy Grady (Cracking the Code) saying that the techniques to play slow and to play fast are actually different when examined in slow motion, so that might explain the some things relating to this. By pushing beyond your capabilities it opens up the opportunity to learn how to progress to that next level?
In any case, without me wandering off topic too much , the main point might be to not stress overly about perfection all the time and, at least once in a while, let your fingers run free, which will hopefully aid the pathway towards smoother, faster, more relaxed playing down the track?
Just to get it clear for myself(Probably not for others, but that’s how it works a little deeper for me), this is how I read it and what you mean JK and Jeff about how we/children learn through trial and error,It’s usually the way we learn everything that involves physically challenging skills (and sometimes also if it’s just mental of course)… I’ll keep on doing until I make a mistake and depending what the mistake is, I continue and try to do it again a little slower after some rest (possibly a bit more quietly) … strangely enough Justin also says in a remaining lesson 1 time a mistake in this exercise is not bad, but make if you make a mistake the 2nd time, then all alarm bells should go off in your brain and you should really worry (I also thought this was overdone), … but all these contradictions show that Justin is also searching ,…
And it just doesn’t come down to this, only if you make a mistake and notice it can you grow further, and we make mistakes every few minutes (me seconds) on the guitar…just try not to make the same mistake over and over and over again,…and think it is good this way,…
Ps: Huberman is a brilliant scientist, but let’s certainly not forget that we/he still know very little about how the brain really works/work together, which is now being proclaimed as absolute truth and really proven, will be in a while just something totally different…
But JK what i said before in an othet tread,… I’ll come back a bit to practicing absolutely flawlessly, thanks for that gentlemen ,… (for Now )
And yes, there are certain exercises where it is good and even important to practice very slowly and perfectly,… apparently not with everything, …so I think now,
And,…
You only know that when you get over the line, and with getting better on guitar this applies to me almost every hour
Just to precise my initial question: How to develop a more releaxed fretting hand?:
I follow the ongoing discussion about how to learn and how to improve physical processes and brain activity perfectly with great interest. But my initial problem was a certain tension which occures at times, when I’m forced to spread my fingers, for example when playing scales. The scale is just an example. The problem also occures, when I practice a solo, let’s say the Beginner’s Blues Solo of Module 13. The solo uses the Am Pentatonic. So fingers have to spread over 4 frets.
I’m very thankful for all the helpful hints about playing the scale better and faster, that really helps a lot! But for me, at this point, it’s not so much a problem to get a perfect physical <-> brain connection to play a scale perfectly at maximum speed, it’s more the physical aspect of maybe pressing too hard, bad finger placement, etc. that hinders me at the moment. It isn’t an end in itself to play the scale at maximum speed, but it’s a good training to speed up for other purposes.
Playing the scale correctly is deep in my brain. In the context of my initial question, the scale or a solo for me is the vehicle to play single notes in a certain order. When I ever want to get faster, I feel, that I first have to work on my individual physical problems to get the ability to execute movements correctly at all and to get rid of the tension that locks my fingers. That’s the point where I would use the aspect: “Do it slowly AND do it right”. I think, when there’s such a basic problem as in my case, I should first work at the very basics again. A little later, when the ability e.g. to set fingers right (statically) has increased, the brain comes in to connect the physical ability to move fingers, where they should go, with my bain. I think, this process should be slowed down too. Then it’s time to work on speed. At a certain point, I think, it’s necessary to push oneself over the limit at the expense of perfection to increase. IMO “Feeling” where the limits are, sets free additional potentials. Think of a race driver, he has to go to the limits and above to succeed.
I really appreciate the ongoing discussion, so feel free to continue, just wanted to precise, what my initial problem was.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and knowledge!
Well Andrea,
If it’s not clear yet,…I’m clearly searching and hard learning (or learning the hard way ) , but what I think still stands ,…just practice, …by making hours you build up strength and that will help,and with practice it also goes faster and faster the movement and that helps too … don’t fear mistakes, I make a lot every hour (maybe that’s why you should be afraid of it ) … that (making hours)helped me with the pain and still helps to last a little longer every month or so before the hands or forearms get sour,…
Some times it’s easier not to make every fault by oneself (is this correct English ?), that’s why I asked for advice
Ha, ha, if I was afraid of making mistakes, I’d already stopped my guitar playing
Maybe my biggest mistake was not to be born as a native English speaker. Would make the conversations here much easier!
Thank you for your encouragement, you know: Take it easy, and so on
I suspect your instinct is correct here. I’ve had ongoing issues with fretting hand tension, and had to take a similar approach. It’s something I still struggle with - especially with C and mini-F chords, but it’s getting better.
I find it best to come up with an exercise that lets me feel the tension consistently, and then consciously release it.
Then I try work backwards to become aware of when the tension starts, and keep it from building in the first place.
I hope this makes sense. If not, I can explain further. Or make a follow up video to the “pinky lock” topic I did a couple months b ago.
Using this lesson as an example. Take a look at Justin’s fingers, he has the almost flat. Playing single notes is different than playing chords. When playing single notes like scales or solos muting other string is note a bad thing so having your finger in a comfortable position on the fret board is key to releaving tention.
Spreading you fingers is just like stretching any tendon, a little at a time every day and they will get there.
When I get to work I’ll watch your video again to see if I can help with more detail.
Thanks Tom, it’s good to see, that others struggle with this too. I think the important first step is to be aware of it and then to do helping excercises. There is so much encouragement here, so I hope, I’ll get there!
I actually know that, but I wasn’t aware till I saw my own video. I thought my fingers were flatter! Thank you for your effort, very appreciated! I’m so happy to get so much helpful advice!
@Helen0609 just watched your video closer and it hard to tell from the video because your wrist isn’t in full view but it look like you have your wrist at a 90 degrees. This will cause massive tension and can lead to problems with your wrist. Try and keep your wrist as straight as possible.
If you can try and drop the body of your guitar down lower. I see your wearing a strap so try standing, adjust the guitar in a comfortable spot them see if you can keep it there when seated.
This is true but if you don’t know the changes there is nothing to force is there.
Justin also say before you speed things up you need to be able to play them 5 times with no mistakes and the best way to learn something with no mistakes is to practice them slowly until you get it right. Then you speed thing up.
You and Jeff make it sound like making mistakes before you know what your doing will make you a better player. I’m saying you need to know what is right first other wise how would you know what a mistake is.
I think Stitch is right - at the very beginning of the video I see a lot of wrist bend.
Also, it looks like you are leaning to the left to look at your fretting hand, which could be adding a lot of general body tension, which can bleed into your hands (though this could be a trick of the camera angle). Playing standing up might pinpoint this as well, as stitch suggests.
I think getting familiar with string muting techniques may help. You will want to have the fingers of your fretting hand much flatter so that your index finger mutes all the strings that are not supposed to ring out. For example, if you are on the 5th string, then your index finger should be muting strings 1-4.
,… (for Now 
)
) , but what I think still stands ,…just practice, …by making hours you build up strength and that will help,and with practice it also goes faster and faster the movement and that helps too … don’t fear mistakes, I make a lot every hour (maybe that’s why you should be afraid of it 
?), that’s why I asked for advice