Hi Joshua, I know from several posts, that you are a great supporter of the classical position. Unfortunately it doesnˋt work for me so far. I think I stay with, how you call it, the cowboy position. About raising the neck: thatˋs another thing to experiment with. At the moment, for scales itˋs more a horizontal position, for the F Barré and Power Chords, it’s much easier when I raise the headstock. I like a sitting position for scales or playing individual notes, but feel comfortable with standing while playing chords or Power Chords on the electric. Seems to be a dynamic thing. Hmm… way to go and time will tell!
Stacy, I read some of your threads and a lot of posts from you and I have the impression, that we have somewhat in common. You seem to be a perfectionist, always trying to do everything “right”. When the results are not as expected…you get sad and discouraged, so do I. I guess, you are doing a lot better as you think and it’s quite normal to struggle with things like an optimal position. And It’s part of the game, when learning online. If there was an in person teacher, you simply would ask him/her and would get immediate response. Now it takes a bit longer to work that out and that makes us unsure. We all are physically different and what works for one might be not helpfull for another. I think, the most important thing is, not to hurt ourselves by doing something really wrong. But you are aware of that and you are able to work that out. If you don’t find a solution, there’s always the option to get in contact with one of the approved teachers here and to take a one to one lesson, or you find someone where you live.
Sometimes I get a little bit overwhelmed by all those things to learn, all those things I practice for hours and they don’t work very well, and see myself fail in such a basic thing like finding the right position, fiddling around and having the feeling to waste my practice time… but in the end: everytime, when I was really discouraged, there was a light at the horizon and something fell in place. What I have learned so far: It is a long way… A VERY LONG WAY. Don’t set yourself under pressure and keep motivated. You already play another instrument, I think, it was the piano…so be proud of that, these skills should be a basis to build on!
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Lots of people play that way, it’s fine.
If you are noticing less tension in your fretting hand, then it’s a better position for you. Trust your instincts on this one…being able to experiment and troubleshoot playing problems like this is a key skill, especially when self teaching.
Congratulations!
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This is a curious thing… I’m pretty sure that’s where I settled holding the guitar. Against my right hip, and I usually have my left leg back slightly. Headstock raised slightly. It just felt comfortable. For me at least, it’s more that my body is tilted back than the guitar is tilted away.
What was different before? Were you holding the guitar flat against your stomach?
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@Tbushell Thanks Tom,
Yes, I’ll do so! Sure, that with time that issue will be solved, as so many other beginner struggles!
@jkahn Yes, I hold it against my right hip too, guitar relatively upright not tiltet towards the body, I don’t lean back (no backrest), headstock lightly raised and slightly away from my body. I used to hold the guitar quite parallel to my body, as you say, flat against the stomach. I always wondered why it doesn’t feel comfortable. Everyone said, that a strat should be quite comfortable to hold compared to others, but that wasn’t my impression. I just can’t say why I did that… maybe I was so concentrated on checking out new skills in Justin’s videos, that I didn’t pay too much attention, that he doesn’t hold an electric parallel to the body too 
. Maybe it’s a question of the camera angle, but I didn’t quite realise that.
I had also a look on a fb site thats in my news feed, called Coffee Break Grooves. When you scroll through the videos, you’ll find out, that nearly everyone holds the guitar close to the hip and not close to the stomach. Hmpf… I ask myself, why I didn’t realise that before 
.
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I’m resurrecting this topic because I’m troubleshooting my form/posture issues and am very interested in knowing whether you folks who said you do this:
are still doing it and finding that it’s working for you.
This has been the most comfortable position I’ve found, also angled upward at about 40-45°. It’s mostly fairly comfortable, except for a few significant exceptions:
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Resting on the hip also causes the guitar to rotate a bit so that the fretboard is not pointing not directly forward but somewhat upward. That’s great for seeing what my hands are doing but not at all good for the fretting wrist, especially when reaching for the low strings. The F barre chord in particular ends up requiring pretty extreme contortion of my left shoulder, elbow, etc. The multiple angles involved become insurmountable.
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Even though I use a strap, this position isn’t at all where the guitar falls when I stand - which is by far the most comfortable position for me. When I stand, the guitar comes much closer to being parallel to my shoulders/body, really a lot like where it would be in a classical sitting position, but definitely not angled away from my left shoulder as when seated with it against my right hip.
So, @Helen0609, @jkahn, anyone else… Is this still how you’re holding the guitar when seated? Have you made any adjustments since this topic?
Thank you for putting this out there and keeping it going.
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Hi Bob,
I started this thread back then and hope I can help you at least a little bit with my answer.
First of all, I have to say, that positioning my guitar (I’m limiting my statements here only to electric guitar, I don’t have troubles with my acoustic) is an ongoing process from the beginning until now for me and I’m still not a 100% there.
I started playing on a strat style guitar, but added a single cut / LP-style recently, which I find more ergonomic to play.
My initial problem back then was the tension occuring in my hand while spreading my fingers to reach the frets. I tried out a lot of different positionings of the guitar and can say:
- Sitting position: I prefer a sitting position when playing scales and single notes, for improvising and the few soli I know. I, for myself, feel less tension, if I hold the guitar towards my right hip, the neck with an angle as in the quote above, neck raised only a little bit. Upper part of the dody of the guitar/fretboard preferably not tilted towards the body, as it causes rotation of my hand around the fretboard and a much more bent wrist.
I watched a lot of videos of accomplished players and most of them seem to hold the guitar in a way like this video:
- Standing position: I prefer a standing position for playing rhythm, barré chords and power chords. The guitarbody at a height of my belly, but more parallel to my body as when sitting, neck raised up, especially for power chords and barré chords. The further I play the chords towards the nut, e.g. F Chord, the more I would have to raise up the neck not to bend my wrist too much.
Those are the two postions causing less strain to my hand/wrist. I had major wrist issues with power chords and barré chords, I only could practice them for very short periods without hurting my wrist, but it has improved a lot.
I came to the conclusion, that we have to find a way for ourselves to get comfortable, as we are so different.
Positioning the guitar e.g. might be influenced by having more or less belly, also female physiognomie in certain parts might have an influence, if the guitar is more or less tilted towards or away from the body or at which height it is positioned.
Concerning wrist angle, I try to always keep that in mind, but I got to the conclusion, that there simply are situations, where the wrist gets bent. I went through Justin’s old Beginner’s Intermediate course book and even Justin’s wrist is bent from time to time and he, for sure is doing things right:
Playing guitar simply isn’t static and we have to leave our comfort zone from time to time. Part of the game is to find out, how we can do this without getting in trouble
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@Helen0609 Andrea, apologies I’ve come late to this lengthy thread and have not read through it all but got the gist. I am wondering whether bending the wrist causes you pain. I’m left wondering why so many are reluctant to do it? Peter
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I started the thread in Jan 23, at that time my major issue wasn’t wrist pain, but a tens fretting hand and I had the impression with a hand like this I could never get comfortable with my playing.
I do feel wrist pain with power chords or barre chords and analyzed that to. In my case it’s a question of straining my thumb in terms of pressing it against the neck as a counterpart. This tension, going out from the thumb, goes down into the wrist. So for me, it’s not a wrist bending issue (can deal with that by raising the neck a bit), but a tension thing.
If I could only say that in German!
I, for myself, indeed believe, that you have to bend the wrist in certain contextes e.g. to reach the upper strings and that it is quite normal to do this, as long as you avoid to do it all the time as a sign of bad habits. That’s what I wanted to say. I just mentioned the wrist issue, in accordance to Bobs post in Nr. 1 and because I know he posted in the other thread a few days ago.
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I would argue that if this is what you have discovered, you should try to play like this seated as well. Have you research and tried to play in a classical seated position?
That is what worked for me, I even have a lift for my electric guitar that allows me to play that way.
Personally, I see all the people playing with the guitar across their lap like the James Frankland video and Justin, but I have no idea how they do or why it is a reasonable idea. My shoulders and wrist ache just thinking about it. Obviously, I am not them, however, so find what works for you.
My thought, based on the quote, is that you already have. Stop struggling and make it so.
Just an example of info out there:
https://www.craigbassett.co.nz/casual-and-classical-sitting-positions/
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I’m thinking that your chair might be too low.
Maybe experiment with a taller chair or stool, or put some firm cushions or big books on your current chair, and see if that helps.
As always, pictures are the best way to help with troubleshooting. At least 2 - one from the front, and one from the hip side.
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Thank you all for these quick and thoughtful responses.
Andrea @Helen0609, I should have clarified that my issues are specifically with an electric guitar, too. Like Joshua @Jamolay, I can’t play in the posture of James Frankland. His shoulders and neck being hunched forward like that, and his right elbow so far back… I wouldn’t last 5 minutes that way. Also, I never see these people barring the first fret, which is where angles are the absolute worst for me.
This describes very well where I find myself:
And I haven’t yet found a way to do that while sitting.
It is true that Justin has some bend in his wrist even when he’s demonstrating the F barre chord here:
But, starting at about 10:56, he talks about not bending it too much and says that’s where you can do damage to tendons in the wrist. This bend is what he says is acceptable:
But this is not and risks doing harm:
I haven’t found a seated position that enables me to do the F chord like the first image. They’re always more like the second. If I stand, I can comfortably do what Justin recommends.
So, yes, Peter @rorystrat, I’m experiencing wrist pain from too large an angle in my wrist. If I didn’t, I’d be perfectly happy doing it.
Joshua @Jamolay, I agree completely that my quest is to find a way to hold the guitar while seated in the same position that I do while standing. I have researched the classical position pretty extensively, including many of your posts here (thank you). Big Issue #1 for me is the rotated pelvis when one leg is higher than the other. That just isn’t going to work for me. I’ve tried splaying my legs and dropping the guitar between them, but that is also not comfortable for my pelvis/hips.
Tom @Tbushell, I don’t think my seat is too low. In fact, I just lowered it a lot after using it higher for 9 months. Only now can I place both feet flat on the floor and have my thighs parallel to the floor.
I keep coming back to the reality that guitars weren’t really designed to be played while sitting, so people have contrived ways to make it work. Then newcomers follow the lead of those who preceded them. It reminds me of the QWERTY keyboard that was actually designed to slow down people’s typing. And yet we continue to use it.
Andre Fludd talks about it more than most I’ve seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz32TgPENRI
But now there are ergonomically designed electric guitars where they’ve put thought into how our bodies fit with the instrument. I’m very intrigued by .strandberg* guitars. Something like this:
looks much closer to what I’d like to be able to do. And these guitars offer many possible positions, which is good for people like me who will become uncomfortable in any position for too long. I hope to try one in the coming months and see if it’s something I want to pursue.
I’ll try to get some photos to show where my problem areas are. Again, thanks everyone.
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I don’t elevate a leg. I elevate the guitar. My feet are flat on the floor and my thighs are parallel to the floor.
What kind of guitar are you playing?
Both “Neck Up” and Woodside make supports suitable for a hollow body style guitar. For a more standard electric, like my strat, I found “Performaxe” pictured below. Stupid expensive for what it is, but no one else makes anything like it.
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I have one! I keep trying it in different places, but I haven’t quite found an arrangement that feels right. I also have a nitro finish, so I have to remove it after use.
I can’t say that I’ve tried it where you have yours. I’ll give that a go today.
Thanks, Joshua.