Thanks, Richard. I’m hopefully on the right track (no pun intended 
) and close to what you have said. I realized about the harmonies after I got in there and started trying.
There are so many ways this could go. So many options when you try to make it your own.
Thanks for your tips and confirmation on what I’ve done so far.
Well I know the root locations for the three triad shapes (on strings 1 - 3) but wouldn’t have a clue about counting scale intervals.
Stuart @Stuartw, scale intervals are a wonderful thing to learn. There are lots of great resources out there. Here’s one.
Diagrams like this one are worth their weight in gold:
Better? Possibly, but then again the intervals allow us to understand how all those different shapes are created. For me, that was an important part of learning to play scales all over the neck.
All major scales have the same interval sequence.
P1 – M2 – M3 – P4 – P5 – M6 – M7
It’s relatively easy to find these intervals up, down and across the fretboard.
Find a root note in the key of the scale you want to play, then beginning at that root, play the interval sequence as listed. The ‘shape’ of the scale results from playing the intervals.
The major scale shapes may change as we move up, down and across the fretboard, but the major scale intervals always stay the same.
If I can’t remember which shape to play where, I just apply the interval sequence from the root and the correct shape emerges.
For me, It is/was a great way to learn and reinforce the shapes all over the neck for this and other scales.
Thanks for the link. I got to about half way down before I didn’t understand.
Taking the sequence of P1 – M2 – M3 – P4 – P5 – M6 – M7 (as shown in the article) the the G Major scale should be notes on string 6/fret 3 (6/3), then 6/5 and the 6/7, but isn’t as the 3rd not jumps to 5/2!!
Once you have learnt them.
How do you know whether to go up or down a string or move to another string.
I must be as thick as a brick where this is concerned as I just don’t get it!
Hi Stuart,
When you consider the strings in isolation, then yes, fret 2 will be a M2 for all individual strings. This is because the intervals number relate to the each root note. The root note on an open string 5 is an A, on string 4 it’s a D and so on for the remaining strings.
In each case fret 2 will be a M2 in relation to the open note. For string 5 the M2 of an A root is a B.
For string 4 the M2 of a D root is an E.
However we seldom play a whole scale along one string, we play across the fretboard moving from one string to the next.
In standard tuning (EADGBE) the strings E-A, A-D D-G and B-E are tuned a P4 away from each other on the chromatic (12 note) scale. Strings G-B are a M3 apart.
You can see this by counting the intervals eg
E to A
E F F# G G# A is a total distance of 5 frets or a P4.
G to B
G G# A A# B is a distance of 4 frets or a M3.
Things get really interesting when you move in the opposite direction for example let’s now count from A back to E.
A to E
A A# B C C# D D# E is a distance of 7 frets or a P5.
B to G
B C C# D D# E F F# G is a distance of 9 frets or a m6.
These coincide with the dots on the neck of the guitar at frets 3, 5, 7, 9 and 12 (the octave).
What makes this incredibly useful is that on any string that is a P4 away from its neighbour, you can pick any note as the root (P1) and it’s P5 will be on the same fret one string above and it’s P4 one string below.
Now apply this to the G note on string 6 fret 3. It’s our P1.
String 5 is a Perfect 4 distance from string 6 so the interval immediately below string 6 fret 3 is a P4 (string 5 fret 3). The M3 is next to the P4 on string 5 fret 2.
Think of the E chord fingering. It’s a 5-1-3. The P1 is string 4 fret 2 (E), the P5 is directly above on string 5 fret 2 (B) and the M3 is on string 3 fret 1 (G#).
The B string being only a M3 from G accounts for the M3 being directly below the P1 (instead of the P4). A difference of 1 fret. Think of the A chord fingering. The 5-1-3 are all on the same fret because the P1 is on string 2 (the B string).
Intervals are always measured in relation to the root note.
The take away from all this is if you pick a note as the root (P1) anywhere on strings 6,5,4,3 and 1 there will be a P5 above and a P4 below on the same fret. From those you can find the other intervals.
I must be too, because I prefer shapes.
Hi Chris, Shapes are fine. We all end up playing them. Keep doing what works best for your learning style.
For me, intervals have helped me create and understand shapes. Major, Minor, Diatonic, Pentatonic, all have different shapes all over the fretboard, but again the intervals for each scale remains the same all over the fretboard.
If you know or are given a scales intervals you can create the shapes even if you haven’t yet learned them. At least that’s my take on it.
There’s some great info on scales here:
Dave
Please can you tell me what M and P stand for in all the numbered letters - M1, P4, M3 etc. - ? However obvious it may be to others and should be to me perhaps, I do not have a clue. Please fill this gap, one of many, in my understanding.
Thanks.
Brian
Hi, Brian. M=Major. P=Perfect.
Stuart @Stuartw, don’t forget that the same note can be played on different strings, so the B on the 7th fret of the 6th string (6/7) is the same as the B on the 2nd fret of the 5th string (5/2). If we take the diagram I showed above and slide it to put the root on the G at 6/3, it looks like this:
You can see that it makes sense that the note at 5/2 would be the Major 3rd since it precededs the Perfect 4th at 5/3. Knowing the pattern of the chromatic (12-note) scale, you can fill in the other empty markers on the first two frets here. In so doing, you’ll see the rest of the notes emerge in the pattern that we were taught for the G major scale. But the reality is that there are other patterns that would give us the same sequence of notes.
I really feel like learning scale intervals and their layout on the fretboard is a huge key to understanding the instrument and how music is made with it. Yes, patterns are very useful, but they’re ultimately derived from this structure, so understanding the structure itself really opens up an understanding of why the patterns exist at all.
It will take time. It’s new and unfamiliar. But every time we’re exposed to it - whether we realize it or not - another little piece sinks in. I keep a diagram like this on the wall in my music room, and I refer to it almost daily to understand scales, chords, embellishments, melodies… You name it. But I also try to work it out in my head before looking.
You could always start by having an interval diagram like this and then experimenting with playing the different notes to hear for example how 6/7 and 5/2 are the same note. It’s a great way to develop your ear and also familiarize yourself with the fretboard.
Hi Brian, Bob nailed it.
Major (M) represented by the little triangle.
Minor (m) represented by the flat symbol.
Perfect (P).
I’ve often seen the intervals written without the P or M.
I guess it implied for the 1, 3, 4, and 5, and the minor’s usually get a flat symbol or b. (m3, b3).
@Stuartw The diagram is also good for highlighting the triads around frets 3-5 across the strings. The triads are just arrangements of the 1, 3 , 5 intervals.
G triad
String 6 fret 3 (1) G string 5 fret 2 (3) string 4 open (5)
String 1 fret 3 (1) string 5 fret 3 (5) string 4 fret 4 (3)
String 4 fret 5 (1) string 3 fret 4 (3) string 2 fret 3 (5)
Gm triad
String 6 fret 3 (1) G string 5 fret 1 (b3) string 4 open (5)
String 1 fret 3 (1) string 5 fret 3 (5) string 4 fret 3 (b3)
String 4 fret 5 (1) string 3 fret 3 (b3) string 2 fret 3 (5)
Now imagine those interval markings on the diagram are written on a clear plastic sheet and laid over the fretboard diagram. Slide the sheet up one fret. Now the roots are all G# but the intervals are still the same. They just land on different notes. All the triad shapes above are the same shapes but now they play a G# G#m triads. Slide the sheet up another fret. Same intervals, same triad shapes only now it’s an A triad.
Hope that makes sense.
is it ‘okay’ to mix open chords and triads within the same song?
eg learning Don’t Look Back in Anger and it needs an F barre chord and an F minor barre which I am still learning
Can I use the Fmaj7 instead of the F major and the F minor triad instead of the F minor barre?
The Fmaj7 instead of the full F seems fine and fairly common, but what about the Fmin triad
I’d probably play it as fret 1 on the G, B and high e strings
Hey Paul
Absolutely it is. Quite common to mix all sorts of chords in songs; triads, open chords, barre chords etc.
Just use your ear to gauge what it all sounds like. Experiment with different voicings
(shapes, positions on the neck etc ) as required.
Cheers, Shane
Cheers for the reply Shane
I’ll carry on working on the full barre but good to know
Can actually go from mini f barre to f minor another way too I just realised
Mini F barre
1
1
2
3
x
x
to mini f barre minor
1
1
1
3
x
x
struggling a bit just to fret the notes, so revising this:
and good to see justin doing it with accoustic, so my brain cant wriggle out of it - no will, its not just for electrics.
this seemed to come good after a week or so. now it would help if there were some songs with this used a lot in the songs area. same for the thumb & finger strumb and the struming - picking strings - just 3 or 4 where its really made clear how to use these new techniques ins songs to bed them in.
