Humbling first Jam experience

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I played a ā€œjamā€ with a bass player yesterday. It was a bit of an embarrassing disaster.

Whilst not my first time jamming with another musician, I have played a few cover songs type jams with a guitarist from work and a drummer. And tried to play with friends a few times. This was my first time one on one with another musician I didnā€™t already know, and boy was it shell shocking.

Met in a local music studio and the room was about the size of my bathroom, very intimate. We hadnā€™t arranged to play any covers or anything, just to have a jam, which is fine I thought seeing as most of my time playing has been focused on improvising. I explained that I had been playing just under 2 years so heā€™d have to bare with me. I didnā€™t realise how much of an understatement that was :rofl:

We started riffing in Em, which actually meant him just improvising a bass line and then me having zero idea what to play to it. I donā€™t want to play leads if heā€™s filling up all the space with his ā€œleadsā€? I cant play chords that actually match what heā€™s playing. I canā€™t figure out his fast tempo 8th and 16th note lines to copy them or compliment them, what am I meant to do here?

This same scenario repeated itself for nearly 2 hours. Even when we decided OK letā€™s just do 145 progressions, without drums or some sort of structure in advance I just couldnā€™t really perform, could barely string 2 chords together, it was pretty devastating.

At the end we did jam on a couple of cover songs but my confidence was shaken by this point and had lost my ability to play anything well.

I know my theory, I know the fretboard, triads, inversions, I play to drum tracks/backing tracks/metronome, have good timing, can improvise semi interesting cohesive ideas on the fly rhythm or lead wise by myself. BUT the moment thereā€™s someone new there it falls to crap to be blunt.

When I play covers with the drummer and other guitarist thatā€™s fine and I can play some improvised lead solos over a Blues etc fine. But this just spontaneous jamming failure is a huge blow to my confidence

Is it just a case of doing it over and over till you get better at it? Is jamming with just a bass player more difficult than another guitarist? Is jamming with someone who likes doom metal when you like blues a bad idea? :joy:

Send help!

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Hi Niel, I read your thread and I instantly know where you are it is very normal it still happens to me and I guess itā€™s just one of those times when you start thinking to yourself ooh my god he or she is going to be well better than me and then your nerves kick in. and to be honest its always or nearly always the other way around if you can just settle those nerves, take deep breathes chill and stop, have a chat settle down start over. I know this is easy for me to say but the important bit is dont let it bother you put it to bed and start again, get over it you are better than that day so chin up mate cheers HEC

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Iā€™ve never jammed with others (let alone strangers), but the thing I definitely would not do is to spend 2 hours struggling to find out whatā€™s being played. Iā€™m sure your jam buddy would have understood if you asked for something more specific to play or would have explained what he played, e.g. arpeggios of a chord progression. But playing together with someone for the first time with no preparation at allā€¦ thatā€™s risky. Did you discuss this afterwards?

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Honestly I think the bass player was being a bit unfair. Assuming he was the better musician then it would have been better etiquette to either agree on a chord structure initially or let you play something and have him follow you rather than expect you to work out what heā€™s doing.
I would have either agreed on a simple song, or started the session by agreeing a simple chord structure (G / Em for example) then take turns with one of you holding down the rhythm and the other playing some lead.
I think itā€™s important to start really simply, particularly if you donā€™t know each other, and build from there.

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I have never tried jamming with someone else yet but itā€™s the sort of scenario I imagine would happen to me. My initial thought was that perhaps the bass player is more experienced and was trying to show off a bit so I agree with what @mathsjunky wrote. Thatā€™s not good because itā€™s supposed to be a learning experience in a positive way.

I hope you discussed it with him.

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Neil

I agree with othersā€™ comments: your bass player has been on some kind of power trip; very impolite; not at all in harmony!.

Beyond that, my suggestion would be to concentrate on practicing and nailing down a selection of songs. You can develop a more confident idea of chord progressions, strumming patterns, fingerpicking etc. by knowing what works in songs. The bigger your repertoire of songs, the easier youā€™ll find improvisations that work.

Nil carborundum iilegitini!!

Brian

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I consider you lucky Neil.
Youā€™ve had the opportunity to play with someone else. Perhaps someone that has ā€˜jammedā€™ before even.
I would consider this a learning experience. You can now have a goal to work towards.

Perhaps.
I have jammed with one person too since I picked up the guitar again. A bass player, and I use this term very lightly.
I couldnā€™t jam with that person either. But the person I was jammin with didnā€™t even know the name of the open string notes of his bass. He was a metal guy too.
It was impossible.
It was not a learning experience for me. I assume it was some for the bass player as I at least let him know the notes of the open strings to tune too. At least then he could tune his bass. Something to be said for that.

Anyways, in the end. While my experence was similar. A disaster. At least someone came away with new info to work towards, it just wasnā€™t me.
Perhaps in your case it was you? You now have something to work towards.
This is good and I look forward to the day that I can play with someone else who can challenge me. I think this would help me in my playing.
As for heavy metal vs blues. Perhaps that ainā€™t a good mix, but it is a better mix than not doing it at all.
Keep rockin on, itā€™s the only way I feel I will ever get better at playing and so far, Iā€™ve not really had the opportunity. Yes, I could say Iā€™ve jammed. But I could also look at it as I wasnā€™t able to help lead my bass player in the direction to help him get better too. This could be considered a failure on my part? But it could also be considered success as I helped my bass player know more about his instrument. Granted, the notes of the strings are about all I know about a bass. But it was a start for him. This is good.
If you took away anything from your jam, you were successful too.

This statement is just food for thought.
We are all at different places in our musical journey.
ymmv

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Next session, you guys could agree on 1 or 2 simple cover songs that you will learn on your own. Maybe use the same backing track to practice on your own.

And practice them together when you meet. Maybe only 30 minutes of playing and 30 minutes of talking to get to know each other.

Thatā€™s where I started with a friend playing piano. Having a different instrument and a different course background definitely makes it more challenging, thatā€™s why improvising might be too much at the beginning.

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The question should be "Is jamming with a Good Bass Player more difficult than other musicians? And the answer is No, it should be a great experience for both of you.

He sounds like a one trick pony. Maybe it wasnā€™t you, if he can only play one style of music then donā€™t waste your time trying to keep up with him.

A jam is give and take. I occasionally jam with a group of musician that only play country and know nothing else. They are all good at what they do but canā€™t play anything else.
I have no problem jamming with then. But If I play anything other than country they screw up canā€™t follow and try to make it a country beat. It sounds like crap.

So when they ask me to play something I like my usually answer is only if you donā€™t try and follow along.

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Iā€™ve been working to play with others a lot lately and itā€™s been tough. One of the hardest things has been dealing with people who are unaccommodating of my beginner-ness.

Iā€™ve found groups who are really accommodating and others who are not at all. And one that wasnā€™t accommodating at first did make adjustments and has been doing a great job since.

I have not attempted to jam with others on an individual level yet, outside of playing some specific songs individually with my wife who is also very beginner. Itā€™s mostly been groups of various sizes. Ranging from just a few on up to 20+. I have a couple offers for more individual jams but have not yet taken up any of those offers. Trying to play with someone of a similar level as myself has been REALLY hard trying to reconcile shortcomings in our skills. Weā€™re getting better at it. It seems to go particularly well when playing with someone who is much more skilled but dials things back and ā€œholds down the fortā€ so to speak, to allow me to push myself a bit.

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I thought of this exactly. Good advanced player should be able to adjust to your level and still have fun in the jam. If he pushes for things which are beyond your level completely, it is time to consider different jam buddy. I donā€™t see either of you two enjoying that.

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Iā€™ve followed your learning logs for a while, and thereā€™s no question you know how to play - really well!
I have two thoughts:

  1. Youā€™re really hard on yourself!
  2. Regardless of the other guyā€™s attitude/motivations, you endured 2 hours with him. That took a lot of stamina!
    Hope you ate some carbs after ā€¦ : )
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I have had one ā€œjamā€ session. It was with a couple, the guy playing violin, and his wife playing a parlor guitar. He introduced me to the song he thought we could try by playing it with his wife and then having me play the rhythm chords. I did poorly there because I have a lot of trouble keeping things in order initially (dyslexia) and I also hadnā€™t ever grabbed one of the chords before, so fingers were off target more than usual. The song was kind of fast as well - a Scottish march that would probably sound perfect on bagpipes. We had a great deal of fun and he gave me an encouraging smile and nod on occasions I finally got it right.

What I have noticed for myself is that I struggle initially with needing to think through what I am doing. It makes me late for everything that is happening in the song. A good example is watching a Justin lesson. He can show us the fingering and count it in slowly, but Iā€™ll not be able to do it unless I stop the lesson video and just do it myself. Alone, I can do it the right tempo, but not if the lesson is playing. I think this is that alone, I have mental time to organize my plan and have a better chance at doing it mostly correctly. When I have pressure to do it in the moment, it falls apart for anything I am not very familiar with.

My correction for this has been to try to get used to catching up/starting. I can do that a bit with a song I know well, starting the track in the middle and trying to be on time and on the correct part of the song. I very much do need to know the song well, so it is still pretty far from improvised in the moment.

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Thanks for the support everyone! Some reassuring words and relatable stories in here.

The bass player was a really nice guy, I think he took the lead as I was obviously nervous, and he didnā€™t really know what I should be doing to follow him as heā€™s not a guitar player. He did make some simple chord progression suggestions but I think my confidence had kinda gone at that point so I wasnā€™t really in it. We did jam on one of the progressions I have which was better and Cissy Strut was fun. I just felt I didnā€™t really get to show my true self.

Iā€™ve maybe been a bit hard on myself as he messaged to say heā€™s up for another jam and has asked for some song suggestions. Iā€™m sure this time Iā€™ll be a bit less nervous so hopefully able to perform this time!

I want to be comfortable enough in front of others that I can just improvise and make up ideas on the fly as I do alone. Seems like a long journey

For people saying theyā€™ve not had the chance to jam with anyone, put up an ad in an online classifieds, as I have had several replies to my ad!

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It may be he was not familiar with taking a lead and was struggling as much as you.
:slight_smile:

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This is a great point Michael. Iā€™ve had the same experience (freezing up, not being able to play simple progressions) playing with people who are more advanced. We must remember what Justin says over and over - donā€™t stop - keep strumming and find the next chord!

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