Mr Cato's Key Signature Trick

Hey Jack,

Yes it applies to the Major scale. You can then derive any other scale from the Major scale.

Cheers,Shane.

1 Like

Hello @jstro and welcome to the Community.

The answer is yes.

All derives from the major scale.
It is the fundamental, the building block, the essential for everything in music.

Hope that helps.
Cheers :smiley:
| Richard_close2u | Community Moderator, Official Guide, JustinGuitar Approved Teacher

1 Like

I am also learning the fretboard and noticed something; You see this note pattern at the 7th (and 8th) frets.

If you hold your finger across all strings at the 7th fret, and then fret the bottom E and B strings at the 8th (from bottom to top it is 8-8-7-7-7-7 ) you get the notes: CGDAEB.

I don’t know if this means anything, but it’s interesting nonetheless!
(And the fact that I recognized it must mean I am learning something :grinning:)

2 Likes

Very nice discovery. Only 1 thing: when we say “bottom” we typically refer to the pitch, so the “bottom E and B strings” was a bit confusing.

Now that you discovered this pattern, you may want to check out the circle of fifths :wink:

1 Like

Thanks! How would you reword it to make it less confusing?

1 Like

I would say B string and high (i.e. thin) E string so that the distinction is clearer between that one and the low (i.e. thick) E string. :wink:

2 Likes

Hey there,

by writing the major scales as a table to practice, I recognized some pattern to it.

For the sharps,
the 4th note of a scale define the next scale sharp note addition.
The 5th note defines the next scale first tone.

For the flats,
The 7th tone defines the next scale flat addition.
And the 4th tone defines the next scales first tone.

For sure Cato is doing is the same thing. But for me it was helpful to write and memorize the table :wink:

1 Like

I think I’m missing something simple here.
Why is there a 1 above the F on the sharp side? I would read this as saying there is 1 sharp in the key of F which of course is incorrect. So what does the 1 represent?

1 Like

Hey Colin,

F is included on the # side in Mr Catos diagram, but it is an exception to the rule. The 1 above F represents the one flat ,(Bb), in the key of F.

Cheers, Shane

2 Likes

Thanks Shane :+1:

So you could put 1(b) above that F as a reminder that the 1 represents a flat and not a sharp?
I cant see that this would mess anything up

1 Like

Hey Colin,

If that makes it clearer, I can’t see a problem. All that matters is that it’s clear to you.
People learn this stuff in various ways. Mr Cato’s trick is one such way to present it.

Cheers, Shane

2 Likes

Great find @KlausGuitar I have written a large topic in the Circle of Fifths that reveals and builds on this idea. The Circle of Fifths - where does it come from, where does it go?

Cheers :smiley:
| Richard_close2u | Community Moderator, Official Guide, JustinGuitar Approved Teacher

100% you could do that to help.
:+1:

Cheers :smiley:
| Richard_close2u | Community Moderator, Official Guide, JustinGuitar Approved Teacher

1 Like

I get how the trick works but, I’m with you Flick, I don’t know how to apply it to sharp keys. For example D#

D#, E#, G, G#, A#, B#, D.

So, D# has 5 sharps. How do I get that from Mr Cato’s system? It appears that the key with 5 sharps is B?

There must be some piece of the puzzle that I’m missing.

2 Likes

Hi Phillip,

“In real life”, you’ll need sharp keys very rarely. The sole exception is F# major which has only 1 natural note (B) in it.

From C# major onwards, the cycle starts again and the scale notes will be 1 semitone higher than in their natural counterparts. E.g. the notes of the D# major scale are the same as those of D major, only 1 semitone higher. A double sharp is used when an already sharpened note is raised by another semitone.

Also, you have to have each “letter” only once in a scale, so no G and G# in the same scale or jumps like B#-D.

1 Like

Hey Phillip,

The key of D#Major has 5 sharps, and 2 double sharps.

Ie.
D#, E#, F##, G#, A#, B#, C##

It is largely a theoretical key, and would not usually be used in practice. Eb Major would be used instead.

Cheers, Shane

3 Likes

I had a very similar realization just this week. How the sharp that get added to make the next scale is always a semitone below the key of that next scale. I was so happy about it that I just needed to make it into a diagram and figure out what was going on. I think it ended up exactly like what you mention.

3 Likes

Thanks for pointing that out Michiel.

1 Like

@joselp Thanks for the tip. That is better than remembering a mnemonic and faster than my counting out the circle of fifths on my fingers :wink:

I had never thought about the cycle of fifths as being sequential for every other letter.

I thought about it some more and saw another interesting fact:

The C D E are the white keys surrounding the 2 black keys on the piano keyboard.
Then the F G A B are the white key surrounding the 3 black keys on the piano keyboard.

With this fact and your tip I can easily remember and write out the 7 notes in the chart.

I also know the open notes on the guitar forward and backwards, so as @apropostt suggested I can think of the 2 thinnest (highest pitch) string barred at the first fret and name the notes going down in pitch for F C G D A E, and remember to add the B.

One other cool thing I noticed about @joselp ’s arrangement of the notes, If you think of the first line as notes on the thickest 6th string (and ignore the F note) and the second line as notes on the 5th string

6th string: F____G____A____B ————->G A B You have the 6 essential notes.
5th string: ___C____D____E ——-———>C D E

1 Like

Th;is is a great lesson on an easy easy to remember all the sharps and flats of the keys. I wasn’t planning on memorizing the complete major scale table so this will be useful (such as on the Grade 3 test).

1 Like