Hey!!! What have we agreed about āassaultingā ?
2 or three ways ā¦ at least thatās how I know this word ādimensionalā from my language ( I also have an own language , so no rights can be granted to it ).
At least I assume thatās what it was because I understood it this way right away
( and found it nice to read ,It would be useful if I had realized this a little earlier +/- 37 years ago approximately ā¦but Delving further into the dictionary it is not really "assulting " but rather āticklingā of the ant )
I could if I knew their patterns and locations! Easier said than done!
Right now I have learned 3 of 5 patterns in CAGED. At least I think thatās what Gr 4 Major Scale Maestro is. It hasnāt been explained yet or put into a broader perspective how to manipulate them/change them/apply them across the fretboard, only that these three scales can be combined because they overlap some notes. There is probably a lot more thatās very obvious, but I never make assumptions. I wait for confirmation and live in confusion until that point.
Justin is showing in this module how to start the scales on different octave root notes. I can see the value in that, no question. While it def is a skill thatās necessary for dynamic sounding playing, it does introduce complexity and yet more patterning to comprehend mentally when itās difficult enough trying to put to memory three base patterns.
So, I think I agree with what you say- if I can do the E shape I can do them all. I guess, even though thereās four other shapesā¦
But its the fact that I donāt know what else there is to learn, how much bigger the world of scales gets, how much more complex it all gets. There are still a lot of unknowns- basically I know how to drive a car but I donāt know how many total gears I have at my disposal (looks like a lot), how big the world is that I can drive in (seems neverending), or how many different configurations of maneuvers can get me to a destination (seems like an endless amount). So, in that sense, guitar seems very nebulous and where I struggle is envisioning how I will even remember these patterns and pull them from memory some 12 years in the future.
Not to mention conflicting ideologies about how to play guitar- my dad, who instilled musicianship in me 40 years ago, still to this day tries to get me to play exactly like the song was recorded, to show utmost respect the music, the artist, and the musical vision. But my guitar player friend refers to the guitar as the hot rod of musical instruments- meant to be the bad boy, the trouble maker, used (and misused) to break all the rules and push music to its limits, respect for the artist be damned. Ay yie yie.
My learning different instruments through time went something like:
Piano, Guitar, Bass, Piano lessons again, Guitar again. Trumpet made a fleeting appearance shortly after the 1st piano - for the rest of this letās leave the trumpet out (I was bad )
I think all the instruments have helped me on the others. Difficulties with guitar: the gap between strings is different to the bass, but whether I have more difficulty with picking the correct string than a non bass player I donāt know.
I suspect there are other things that help some of us play multiple instruments. I think being dexterous with both hands to some degree probably helps. But whether I and others are naturally ambidextrous which helps us to play instruments, or if itās because we play instruments that we become dexterous with both hands Iām not really sure.
There is only 1 E shape pattern and it covers every key. Pick any note on the E string that would be the root of the scale and play the E shape scale pattern.
If you picked the note B(7th fret) and play the E pattern you are playing the B Major scale.
This applies to every key all 12 use the same pattern. Just the notes change the pattern stays the same.
So if you know 3 patterns you know how to play every key using 3 different patterns.
Now hereās the secret that every guitar teacher doesnāt tell you. The natural minor scales is exactly the same pattern. The only difference is the note you start on.
If you play the A Major scale(E shape 5th fret) then instead of putting your index finger on the 5th fret start with your pinkey on the 5th fret. This is the A minor scale. This also works with the pentatonic scales.
There are only 5 shapes in the CAGED system these 5 shapes cover everthing you would possibly ever need. You can get away with learning just the E, A and C shapes because the A and G interlock, the D and C interlock and the D is the extension to the E.
Play the way that makes you happy. I find if I learn song as played by my favorite artists I learn a lot to add to my playing but I donāt always play them that way. Adding your own personality to your playing always sounds better and feel natural.
pm me if youād like a deeper dive down the rabbit hole of scales.
I find it a little curious why some learning programs donāt start with the CAGED system, if it is that all-encompassing. Iāve done Justinās fundamentals and Guitar Tricksās fundamentals and neither start with the idea that these five patterns are pretty all you would ever need for scales. I canāt speak for everyone, but for myself particularly, if I was given that perspective from the very start, that scales are really just āthisā and thatās it, I would have a much better time perceiving my skill and progression, and built a lot of much needed confidence.
Now, Iām not about to criticize Justinās methods, heās the expert, not me. Heās the one with decades of teaching experience. But I just know myself and maybe Iām not like the rest. My vision of the guitar world is improved with even just that little bit of insight. Maybe because I had a substantial amount of theory under my belt already, I was ready for the CAGED system sooner than others. Donāt know.
On the topic of ideology, I know right now I still have a lot (A LOT) of technique to learn and a lot of muscle memory to learn. Right now, Iām thrilled to be able to play anything like what my idols sound like (playing something similar to their song). One day I hope to be able to play the SAME techniques as my idols (if I can play what they play then I am getting good, right?), and then sometime waaaay down the line I can improve on what my idol played (the idea that my own spin would be my own creativity which I see as the ultimate of goals). I admit I am pretty desperate to learn creativity. Creativity was squashed for me before I ever learned how to recognize it or embrace it. I wish there were videos or lessons out there on how to learn to be creative.
Most Rock and metal is based on the pentatonic scales which are 5 notes of the 7 in the major scales and easier to learn. That being said the Major scale is the foundation of modern music and once you understand it everything falls in place.
I just wish teachers would explain it better. Itās really note that hard to understand.
Have you ever sat down at your piano with your guitar and used your piano to help you see the fret board clearer?
I havenāt physically but I donāt think I struggle seeing it clearly in the sense of how notes are laid out as compared. I understand the shift in starting pitch for each string and how the B string is further shifted. I discovered the pattern to finding a root noteās next octave pretty early. The scale boxes themselves make sense with moving through the note progression. Is that what youāre hinting at, or something more complex? I think where it gets overwhelming is the thought of memorizing the fretboard to where I can go straight to a note without calculating it, especially on the middle strings where we tend not to memorize, and that without doing that, Iāll not be able to play efficiently. The key word being āefficientlyā. My goal is to play a song (eventually improvising) in the most efficient fingering. To do that, gotta know those scales and those note locations.
This will help
Using the CAGED Shapes the C shape has 2 root notes 1 on the A string and 1 on the B string.
The A shape has 2 root notes 1 on the A string and 1 on the G string .
The G shape has 3 root notes 1 on the E string, 1 on the G string and 1 on the thin e string.
The E shape has 3 root notes 1 on the E string, 1 on the D string and 1 on the thin e string
The D shape has 2 root notes 1 on D string and 1 on the B string.
If you memorize the root in each shape it helps learn the notes all over the neck. I found that easiest way to look at the fret board.
First off, a LOT of people starting guitar donāt know a lick (pun intended) of theory and only care to know as much as they absolutely need. So guitar teaching follows this desire to a degree.
Second is that a lot of people going into it have physical limitations on what theyāre capable of doing. Finger dexterity and control is absolutely my biggest hangup. I tried learning guitar for the first time almost 25 years ago and it didnāt take until just shy of 2 years ago. I tried multiple different private instructors. I tried a group class. I had tried other online lessons (I tried Fender Play during the pandemic). I kept running into the same barriers with my fretting fingers not doing what I needed them to do. None of the instructors or lessons stripped it down basic enough for me. I finally found one that did (and it wasnāt Justin, even). It was a small thing (first chords being Em and Asus2, which make no sense whatsoever from a music theory standpoint, but when even that is difficult to do at first, itās a bit nuts to throw even more challenging chords at someone to start with), but it set the progression to something that was more attainable for me.
With your pretty lengthy piano background, youāve got a head start on some of these things. You may feel awkward putting your fingers in the spots you need to for the guitar, but I was starting out trying to fret chords with a club. At least you had some background with moving those fingers more and making chord shapes and stuff.
My instructor was tossing pentatonic scales my way well over a year ago and I worked with them a fair bit. He was steering me towards being able to improvise right quick. However I found I had a greater need/desire to work on my rhythm. I felt like I needed to spend more time on that before I started adding more information and technique.
I definitely found myself dealing with information overload earlier this year. I was piling all kinds of different stuff onto my musical plate and I had a hard time keeping it straight and finding the time to focus on any one thing for long enough to actually learn it. Thatās the other side of it. You can only absorb so much so fast and develop the muscle memory to do those things youāve learned.
I have no musical background and the only surprise I can think of is how long itās taken to get to where I am, much longer than I would have hoped/guessed and I think I see that in a lot of the beginner to 12 months posts of people getting disillusioned.
As for the theory stuff Iāve tried to just pick that up as Iāve needed it so itās not been overwhelming. I donāt see the point of learning a lot of theory that my hands donāt have the ability to play.
Thereās probably pros and cons to knowing other instruments. In the end I donāt think it greatly matters, guitar is different and needs to be learned as a new instrument is my take.
I believe you right away, but Iām also sure that it is explained quite well elsewhere,because I startes that modes stuff later ( way to early but later) I know it was a huge āOooo yes, now I finally understand it ā moment ā¦ it took a relatively long time before I realized that major and minor scales were the same, or rather why ā¦ but that had to do with the fact that I think that I first learned them all without being able to make music with them ( and otherwise especially with anything that I learned way too quickly without actually being able to play it ā¦ I have improved my guitar life now )
ā¦ I would like to see that lesson again ,just for fun and show to others, but I am very limited in time at the moment
I hope you donāt mind me writing this. I hope it will help you and others who feel similarly.
There is a saying in the mentoring and coaching world that āeveryone is creative, resourceful and whole.ā I wonāt go into more about what that means as an internet search will yield enough results for you if you wish to delve into it deeper.
Even before I did any formal mentoring training, I believed everyone is creative. I sometimes start off meetings with a creativity moment (a change from the āsafety momentā we are supposed to doš). I have started workshops with a 30 minute session deliberately aimed at getting people in a creative mood.
Basically I think everyone, you included (even though we havenāt met) is creative.
There are resources and apps available. I read a book by Roger von Oech titled āA whack on the side of the headā. It really helped me with my creativity. I now just use his App, called āWhack packā. If I need to get creative itās my go to place - Iāll spend half an hour or so with it. It used to only available on IOS (not sure of the current status). It always helps me.
There are other resources, but Iāve not used any of them for years and canāt remember their names.
Hm, you could read it as that, I guess, if you ignore how much time these theory questions take up, at least in someone who wants to understand what theyāre doing, but have no idea what a half note is. And thatās on top of the thing every beginner guitar player struggles with, which is co-ordination between both hands. Which is also made significantly easier if you already learned how to do that for piano, btw.
And then thereās the way in which you already know how to make music, for lack of a better word. You already know how to put a bunch of techniques, notes, etc. together to make something whole, something beautiful, and you have the confidence of that knowledge. When you start your first instrument, you do not. It just sticks in my throat wrong when people say itās easier to learn your first instrument than your second, because in my experience, thatās just wrong, especially if you truly do not have any kind of musical background whatsoever.
?
, so no rights can be granted to it ).
because I understood it this way right away 
ā¦but Delving further into the dictionary it is not really "assulting " but rather āticklingā of the ant 
)
)
ā moment ā¦ it took a relatively long time before I realized that major and minor scales were the same, or rather why ā¦ but that had to do with the fact that I think that I first learned them all without being able to make music with them ( and otherwise especially with anything that I learned way too quickly without actually being able to play it ā¦ I have improved my guitar life now )