My Understanding of CAGED System

@rachelcoles

Hi Rachel - I see you have had some useful advice plus lots of diagrams etc too.
Here is my 2c.


Example 1 chord progression:

| D | G | A | D |

Triads
D = D, F#, A = 1, 3, 5
G = G, B, D = 1, 3, 5
A = A, C#, E = 1, 3, 5

D major scale:
D, E, F#, G, A, B, C# = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

D major pentatonic scale:
D, E, F#, A, B = 1, 2, 3, 5, 6

D minor pentatonic scale:
D, F, G, A, C = 1, b3, 4, 5, b7

— — —

The D major scale will work - with a careful ear to be a little careful around the 4th and 7th scale degrees.

The D major pentatonic will definitely work as it it removes these two potential trouble spots. That will give your improvisation a major sounding, upbeat, happy, country, sweet vibe. Notice there is no G so you’ll not be hitting the root of the IV chord.

The D minor pentatonic will bring a biting, bluesy quality, rubbing some friction in the mix - a b3 against a major 3, a b7 adding tension. You have spent time doing this in BLIM and subsequently - albeit most of those progressions used I7 and IV7 and V7 instead of major triads.

— — —

To keep it simple, focus initially on one scale. Do you want sweet and upbeat or down low and dirty? Major pentatonic for the former, minor pentatonic for the latter,
To go beyond simple, mix in to one of the scales some chord tones. Major pentatonic plus the 4th when the IV chord is playing (its root note) plus the 7th when the V chord is playing (its 3rd and a leading tone back to the I chord).
Minor pentatonic plus 3rd (remember from BLIM hammer-on from b3 or curl b3 to suggest 3rd) plus 6th when the IV chord is playing (its 3rd) plus 9th when V chord is playing (its 5th). These are all covered extensively in BLIM.

— — —

A more developed approach. You could mix and match major and minor pentatonic. Play major pentatonic over the I chord then minor pentatonic over the IV and V chords.

— — —

Keep it simple. Think of one scale, one pattern, one framework and expand it with embellishment notes. This is much more manageable than constantly thinking of switching scales and patterns with each passing chord. Your application and understanding of CAGED is correct. For your progression using major or minor versions (D, G and A or Dm, Gm and Am) you can overlay the CAGED shapes as follows: E-shape D scales; A-shape G scales; C-shape A scales, all based around fret 10. But, that is making things far more complicated than is necessary.

— — —

Example 2 chord progression

| Dm | Gm | Am | Dm |

Triads
D = D, F, A = 1, b3, 5
G = G, Bb, D = 1, b3, 5
A = A, C, E = 1, b3, 5

D minor scale:
D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7

D minor pentatonic scale:
D, F, G, A, C = 1, b3, 4, 5, b7

— — —

The D minor scale will work although be careful with b6 note of Bb - when the i chord is playing and when the v chord is playing. Also be careful of the b3 note of F when the v chord is playing. They can create dissonance if you stay on them.
The D minor pentatonic scale will work fine. Even better if you can add some chord tones too. Add the b6, note Bb when iv chord is playing (the minor 3rd of the chord). Avoid it over the v chord! Add the 9th, note E, when the v chord and the i chord are playing (5th of the v chord and 9th of the i chord).

— — —

I hope that helps.

:slight_smile:

1 Like

@Richard_close2u

Hi Richard,

Thank you for the detailed explanation and definitely helpful hints on what to play and what not to play.

I’ve been practising today using mainly D Minor Scale with some D Major notes added and then mixing it up a little.
I’ve also been working on getting some licks and progressions together over both Maj and Min taking into consideration on what to play and not to play.

It’s been a interesting and a very informative discussion but also at times, slightly confusing :see_no_evil_monkey: but I think I now understand more about the CAGED system and how the different chords/notes fit within scales etc. There is still loads to learn and practise but I feel confident I can come to grips with it all.

Happy Easter everyone :rabbit_face:

1 Like

I was going to stay out of this conversation because you’ve received an over whelming amount of into already but everyone has missed the most basic exercise for chord tones and how these chords fit in a key.
Knowing this will help you under stand how CAGED works and find the root note of each chord easily.

I’d like to take you back to basic Major scale practice that always gets over looked.
Practicing the Major scale in 3rds. This simple exercise gives you all the chord tone for every chord in a key.
Take the C major scale and when playing it in 3rd you get the chord C R 3 5 the next set of 3rds starting on the 2nd interval is Dm R b3 5 the next set starting on the 3rd interval is an Em R b3 5 5his repeats until you go through every chord in that Key.

You can carry these 3rd on to make 7th chords. CMaj7, Dm7,Em7 etc. These are your target notes for every chord not just the I, IV, V and 3 of the 5 notes in the pentatonic scales attached to that chord

3 Likes

Looks good to me telemann1 :slight_smile:
Look a little deeper and all the chords for the key are in their since, as you correctly observed, the notes are diatonic. Some of the chord shapes can be difficult though. Its often just easier to use a simple bar chord that’s not in the shape.

1 Like

I’m still struggling to see the value in thinking in CAGED shapes. Take position 3 of the major scale for example.

This is supposed to be the C shape, but for me it makes more sense to think of it as a D shape. Most improvisation is based around the top 3 or 4 strings, so I can visualise a D chord in there much more easily.

It’s the same with the G shape (position 5).

I can very easily “see” the A shape in there, but the G chord is a challenge.

Maybe I should forget the CAGED system and just focus on ADE. :worried:

I think the most useful approach to the CAGED system is thinking of it purely as a framework.

I feel like a lot here is overcomplicating something that is really just 5 ways of collecting the notes of a major triad together to give some kind of fretboard orientation!

I see the CAGED Shapes as root note patterns with a bunch of notes on one side or the other!

E Shape - Root 6, notes bridge side.
G Shape - Root 6, notes nut side
A Shape - Root 5, notes bridge side
C Shape - Root 5, notes nut side
D Shape - Root 4, notes bridge side

So that all it is for me. With in each block I see a Minor Pentatonic first, as that is my main framework - then I see Major Chord arpeggios.

From either of them I fill in the blanks to use scales - but mostly I think in terms of chord tones rather than anything else…

I think I shoudl add a CAGED lesson to my list of things to work on - seems much confusion here!

5 Likes

Ah… that’s interesting! So you are using the caged shapes to visualise the notes based on the root on one of the lower strings… either “above” or “below”. OK - that makes more sense.

That would be good!

@telemann1 ,

Yes, the C/D shape, and the G/A shapes are ‘interlocked’. It’s part of the tight knit framework of CAGED, and can be used very much to your advantage by simplifying the whole framework.

This is one of the great benefits of CAGED; a root note framework across the fretboard, with interlocking triads.

Cheers, Shane.

1 Like