Personally, I think you are missing some basics.
I would start at Justin’s beginner course and work through it for a bit, and then, perhaps, look at the Music Theory course.
Cheers,
Keith
I am doing the grade 4 blues course now!
Isn’t that the whole point of this lesson by Justin? Play the A7 arpeggio over the A7 chord, the D7 arpeggio over the D7 chord and the E7 arpeggio over the E7 Chord.
Arpeggio patterns contain only the notes of a particular chord from lowest to highest and back down. They are not scales which are the succession of a specific pattern of intervals starting on a given root note and covering an octave. Dominant 7 arpeggios include the 4 notes of the chord whereas minor pentatonic scales are constructed with the intervallic formula of Whole + Half - Whole - Whole - Half + Whole - Whole (tones, that is).
In blues, the A7 - D7 - E7 progression and an E minor pentatonic melody over it are not in 3 different keys but 1 key. Does it line up with classical harmony and “the rules” of classical music theory? Not to 100%. Does it sound good? For most people, it does.
Yes. And I know that I am posting some harsh-seeming comments and throwing what may be read as disparaging remearks. It is not my intention to dissuade you from asking questions and seek insight… Quite the opposite. Asking questions and seeking to further your understanding is really important. And I hope I can be a part of a reasonable and reasoned response to your questions.
Justin studied and trained in classical music and western traditional music theory, alongside contemporary genres of guitar music. He is learned to a very high standard in all things music - both the theory and the practice. He is not a self-taught player.
I am very reluctant to speak negatively about another teacher and the methods that they employ. And who knows, it may be that David Reed has indeed re-written the musical book and his ideas will become the prevailing othodoxy in time, replacing traditional western music theory. It does seem that the course uses methods nobody else in the whole world uses and approaches of describing scales and their relations to other scales and chords that is not in line with any other methodology. That may be its strength. It may be its weakness in terms of preparing its students to communicate with other musicians using a shared language.
Caveat - I am basing this solely on the tiny bit of information I have seen in this topic and a small bit of online information elsewhere.
I would say, if you want to follow and understand Justin’s courses - and to understand and communicate with other musicians generally) - to reset your whole basis of understanding scales and notes and music theory from that you have been taught in IFR. Can you do a Men In Black flashy-light memory things and start again.
For example.
IFR says, correctly, that the major scale has formula 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Is this understanding I have correct? That IFR then goes on to say that the minor pentatonic scale has formula 6, 7, 2, 3, 5?
I declare I have not read the full IFR methodology nor studied the courses. But, to me, there is something inherently wrong with describing a scale where its root note is not described as scale degree 1, where the all important tone is located somewhere in the middle.
Or have I missed something?
I agree. It is falling between the cracks. It is not using scale patterns - a super convenient and user-friendly way to train physically and understand conceptually scales on a fretboard. It is not using intervals in their proper sense. It is simply using numbers, written in an ordinal sense, and rearranging them into different clusters but using the same unvarying order. By which I mean that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (the major scale) can become 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 4 (the mixolydian scale) and can become 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (the aeolian scale). This rearranging does not give any understanding of how major and mixolydian and aeolian are similar nor how they are different. It does not describe the subtle yet vital awareness of the scale degrees that give mixolydian, or aeolian (or any other scale) their unique character and sound.
Yes. I need to flag - this is one of the very few aspects of Justin’s teaching courses on the website that is not free but subscription based. https://www.justinguitar.com/store/practical-music-theory
I see why you wrote what you wrote. But, arpeggios are not 7-note scale. And adopting that approach takes musicians to the place where blues becomes jazz. And we are really discussing a very basic 12-bar blues structure in E here.
Just so.
1 Like
RE: IFR
I am not wholly closed minded to new approaches to describing, explaining and understanding music.
I am definitely suspicious of ‘magic formula’ type courses that that are marketed with promise of amazing things that no other type of study can deliver.
I have just watched two videos (hosted on Youtube) presented by David Reed. They are titled Break out of scale drawings! Freedom of movement on the fretboard parts 1 and 2. Total running time 38 minutes +.
38 minutes in which he shows nothing more than how to play the chromatic scale across six strings of the guitar. He calls it the ‘cloud’.
Playing the chromatic scale is not music nor musical nor does it help in any way on the route to being able to improvise freely in any key across the entire fretboard of a guitar. It is a simple process of moving in semitone steps from low to high or from high to low.
NOTE.
Important note …
I alerted Justin & the team the the TAB with accompanying standard notation could be problematic for people who do read standard notation and key signatures. Currently, Boom Bass With Licks has the standard notation written as though in the key of C.
Justin is aware and changing it is on a to-do list.
The other lessons in that series show on the standard notation as though in the key of D. Justin has chosen this as it is equivalent to E Dorian and it means fewer accidentals to negotiate.
Now I’m really confused. Why would he write music when the first chord is E7 in the key of C. The details you were saying about IFR with the order of numbers with those modes is correct and yes, it does not show which notes are flat or sharp in those scales. If you follow those numbers, you don’t have to memorize patterns and it allows you to go up and down the neck And if you study the scale, you will for example: know if the one to the three note is one string higher two frets to the left you know the three is flattened because it’s only supposed to normally be one fret to the left.
Accident. Human error. It’s on a to-do list for editing.
So that piece of music in the last lesson of grade 3 did Justin write it and if he did write it in the key of C if he changes it to key of E does that mean the whole sheet music and the key of C there are no sharps and flats yet in this piece of music it has Some sharps
I have taken the entire piece and written it out in scratch using Guitar Pro software.
NB #1 - The TAB stays the same for all.
NB #2 - I have added three extra bars at the start. Bar 1 is empty. Bars 2 and 3 are simply tempo count-in hits on the low E string. They are entirely my creation and not in Justin’s piece. Bar 4 of mine is where Justin’s starts.
This is what the standard notation looks like in the key of E major (key signature showing on the staves).
This is what it looks like in E Dorian (parent major scale = D major).
Dorian can be a good choice because in addition to the 1, b3, 4, 5, b7 of the E minor pentatonic, additional ‘colour’ notes are often used in major blues, these being the 2 and 6 of the E major scale. These two extra notes, together with the five of the minor pentatonic, are the E Dorian scale.
E Dorian = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
Also.
Note that blues often uses chromatic passing notes. These will necessarily show with accidentals in the standard notation. They are not in the scale / not in the key. They are simply passing tones.
I compared the E major version and all the notes are the same. What is that first bar in Justins version, it is the only bar that he does not have a chord detailed. Is that a “turn around”? I dont understand how you say Justins version is in the key of C and your version is in the key of E and how they can have the same chords and notes… a 145 progression in the key of C is CFG. Your E dorian version also has all the same notes and chords detailed. I thought dorian is the second mode so in the key of E dorian would be starting on the Fm. Is this piece of music following the pentatonic or minor pentatonic in the first position? Is the blues usually pentatonic? Really trying to understand all this. Thanks for the help!
It is. E is the second note of D Major. Richard Points this out in his reply.
It is an intro. A ‘pick up’ bar. Technically called anacrusis.
Justin’s first 4 bars of the E7 chord in standard notation (with no sharps / flats shown on the stave = key of C).
My notation of those same bars with accidentals highlighted and key signature key of E major.
My notation of those same bars key signature key of E mixolydian.
Now here, in the same order of Justin’s tab then my E major then my E Dorian, are the first two bars of the A7 chord. Accidentals are highlighted.
I don’t say that.
The chords, the notes, the TAB, everything is identical.
On a computer software, when written in standard notation using a key signature with no sharps or flats indicated on the stave, Justin’s pdf is accidentally written as though in the key of C (which the music is not).
That is correct but only the representation of the notes (not the tab) is shown in the key of C. The chords are the chords are the chords in this music = E7, A7, B7.
Yes. Because the music is the music and the chords are E7, A7 and B7.
Every major scale has seven associated modes.
Mode 1 = Ionian (which is the actual major scale itself).
Mode 2 = Dorian.
You are correct.
No.
The tonic chord of E dorian is the chord Em.
The second chord in E dorian is the chord F#m.
the third is G.
The fourth is A.
The fifth is Bm.
The sixth is C#dim.
The seventh is D.
The chords of the blues in E major (E7, A7 and B7) are not, technically speaking, diatonic chords from the key of E dorian.
BUT
The scale that can be played over it, and that fits supremely well in a blues context is the E minor pentatonic scale plus, for extra spice and colour, the 2nd scale degree and the 6th scale degree of E major also.
E minor pentatonic + 2 and + 6
1, b3, 4, 5, b7 plus 2 plus 6 = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
That seven note scale formula just happens to be E dorian.
Even though the underlying harmony is not an E dorian progression, the melody / lead that can fit over the top can happily be played using the notes of E dorian scale.
The chords are the chords, and chords are not sourced from a ‘pentatonic’ perspective. Chords are always sourced from the key.
The licks and notes (apart from any occasional chromatic passing notes) are mainly E minor pentatonic.
I have finally memorized the sheet music that I originally posted on this topic and can play it from start to finish with proper timing. Is there a 12 bar blues jam track in the key of E that goes with this lesson or is there another one justin or any of the members can recommend Let me know thanks
Are you talking about the Boom Bass With Licks lesson? If so, I don’t believe so. I think it’s meant to be played solo.
Can’t this sheet music be played on any 12 bar blues in thekey of E?
IDK. Maybe give it a try and see how it sounds?
You keep referring to “sheet music”. Which specific piece of music are you asking about?
Randy, this is one in a small series of lessons that use the new tool embedded in the website called MatchMySound. It is a play-along version. https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/how-to-use-matchmysound-sbr-000
Click the PLAY button under the video pane.
The actual piece was composed by Justin for the express purpose of playing rhythm and licks combined as a single unaccompanied player.
