NGD - 1st Pre Amp. :)

a speaker on its own needs a power amp.
This unit does a lot but it doesn’t do “poweramp”.
a PA speaker usually is powered, exactly because of the power amp that is built in.

a pre-amp “shapes” your signal
a power amp “powers/amplifies” it

What your pre-amp also does though, is shape AS IF it goes through a power amp AND a speaker. all it needs then is the cleanest, flattest power amplification to make it “room loud”. your balanced out can go right into mixing desk of the soudn engineer, eliminating the need to mic up a cabinet. The cabinet emulation (IR) is already part of your signal.

Of course, you can use it as a regular pre-amp and let it go into an amp.
Though,

for use cases like that, I have a small, pedal sized solid state power amp, like this

pre-amp → power amp → speaker cabinet.

if you have a combo amp with an fx loop, you could plug your pre-amp into your “return”
in order to use the power amp and built in speaker.

in that case, you need to turn off the IR in the pre-amp though, or you’ll be runnign a ‘cabinet character’ into a power amp and then again a “cabinet” (a real one)

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Thank you. :+1:

Thank you for this, it explains a lot. So thank you. I am truly dreadful with cabling. This sort of info would e great if recorded but, I guess a little difficult with the number of option available. Basic setups could be very informative though.

Thanks again.

Rachel

We’ll gladly help here!

you could make a list of use cases you are thinking of.
We can make a bit of inventory of what kind of cables to use etc.

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This thread is pushing all the right buttons.
I applaud you!
:clap:

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:grinning_face_with_big_eyes:

I suppose for me, ‘Use cases’ is learn to play and record both mic’d cabs and DI as many parts of a song as possible with the instruments I have. I know thats more of an end goal but I have plenty if time :slight_smile:

Usage case woud be record individual instrumens to a given piece of music which really appeal to me.

I have my recording software (studio one 7)

Katama 50MkII - power amp In and Aux In.
New Pedal
Scarlet 8i6
Celestion creamback 1x12 cab 16ohm
3 mics - 2 paired pencil mics, and 1 omni directional

Instruments
Guitars
Electric Piano
Electric Violin ?
Bass Guitar to come

Later…
Synergy 20IR Amp
Back panel image

Rachel.

PS
I hope other people will also add in what they think will also be of help to them with regards to this , more the merrier :slight_smile:

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Interesting case :smiley:

one of the first things you want to consider is how ‘synchronous’ you want that to happen.
one way would be to play something through as many ‘tone generating’ devices you have and record them om separate tracks synchronously.

OR

record one part, hearing it through an amp as reference but also recording the dry signal from your guitar. you can record several takes of one track, replay in your daw with some basic amp sim just to hear what’s going on and edit/cut/etc the guitar pieces and comp them to tracks you like (this price from the first take, that piece form the second take etc). you probably end up having 2 max 3 good takes by cutting and pasting the pieces together.

when you achieved your ‘brilliance on the basics’, a few but solid guitar tracks, you turn off the amp sim and you have dry signals again you can send trough each physical amp and play with the settings. If all settings are good you can now “re-amp” → run the dry signal through an amp and record id. listen to it, tweak some drive or EQ when needed etc.

When you want to do it LIVE, you’re doing this all at once of course.
Using 2 amps live can offer real fun blending options.

your new pre-amp offers a lot of scenario’s and your amps can be flexible too, disconnecting their speakers (which is, in combo amps often not hard wired but a piece of speaker cable going from power amp section which you can detach like regular jacks. it’s a bit shot though).

To use the Creamback, you better put it in a cabinet. to use it properly you either

  • need to connect the cabinet with the correct power amp output on the Synergy amp (we can lookup the correct impedance)
  • get your hands on a separate power amp so you can ‘make your pre-amp louder’( or attach quasi any drive pedal in front of it.) and then attach the cabinet to this power amp.

Even so, in theory, when you connect the pre-amp to the ‘return’ of the fx loop of the Synergy (or the Katana if it has one), you can use the Synergy as power amp.

perhaps, at some point, a simple passive splitter (like those from Lehle) comes in handy to split your dry guitar signal into 2 quality signals without the need to power that little block. you can run that into your scarlet to record your dry while jamming and have the other go to an amp or you can go to 2 separate amps and go for stereo character blends etc :smiley:

you might need to buy some speaker cable of decent length when you want to use a separate cabinet or you want to use the speaker inside a combo amp. They handle more power than your regular guitar cable but the jacks look the same so be wary. speaker cable tends to feel a bit less flexible

So Bottom line is

  • decide on your workflow
  • map for each of your devices which roles and components it has
  • see the many options you have in front of you, using pre-amp here, power and there, speakers here…

**

IMPORTANT NOTES to AVOID DAMAGE

  • always use speaker cable to go from power amp to speaker
  • dont use a power amp with a correct speaker attached to it. (speaker or a load that emulates a speaker)
  • don’t connect a power amp to a powered input of a PA speaker
  • check the correct impedance; that’s why power amp outputs often have 4/8/16 ohm outputs to choose from)

**

this won’t cause damage, except maybe to your ears or brain :wink:

  • turn of IR (cabinet ism) when you plan to run your signal through real speakers
  • turn on IR if you plan not to pass through real speakers

In al your scenario’s, you can always use the balanced out to connect your amp with an audio interface or mixing desk. this signal will be safe (not high powered) so that can go into your other devices. check the docu of your gear to check whether it has some built in speaker simulation. in the case of your pre-amp, it will probably use the IR by default ofr maybe you have the option to turn that on and off as well.

(this is starting to sound like a Live Club subject? :D)

I’ve had to read this a few times lol.

Ok, I like the idea of syncronous recording and I have the means to try it but, i thin kit will a good way to find a nice time and apply it to the option after the OR.

Individual tracks playing back while recoring another part along with the editing is the right way to go I feel. Suits me :slight_smile:

by LIVE , do you mean a recording take. I will neve be playing live for people, just a note there lol.

With the Synergy it will give the option for multiple amps as it’s a modular system.
Which by the way ahs 4,8 and 16 ohm impedances.

I didn’t mention it but yes, the case is a Harley Benton G112 unloaded.

Had to read this a few time and still not totally sure I have understood correctly.
The Katana 50 cant do it, there’s no send return on the 50.

This sounds like a really good idea. I’ll be sure to look into the item you’re suggesting as I’ve already tried stereo recording but with my accoustic.

Do you mean speakers like, Monitor speakers. ?

For sure, theres a lot to understand with not much gear , and a LOT of different options that can be explored.

I will certainly have to read through all this a few times for it all to sink in and then some lol.

Rachel

Extremely informative post @LievenDV and a little mind bending having to read lines over to work it out. , Hopefully have it worked out lol

Good Golly Miss Molly! Please plug the dang thing in and play something already. You are killing me. LOL

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:rofl:

Rachel

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Well I tried, seems like @LievenDV suggested I do need a small power amp to make a sound on the Katana 50. Everything appears in order after the firmware update and panel selection switchs show changes at the software, so all good there.

Sadly no sound from the Katana, so, going to have to wait until I get the main amp Im afraid, a FEW months lol… :frowning:

Rachel

Plug your guitar into the input of the pedal and then run a patch cable from the “to amp in” of the pedal to the input of your Katana. The Katana will provide the power amp portion. Set the Katana super clean or bypass the pre-amp if it has such a setting.

Now this has made me re-read some manual sections.

I had the guitar hooked up, and the patch cable going from ‘to amp in’ - to power amp in.

Should that be the Input, not the power amp in.

Every thing I read says power amp in, but nothing happened except the controls all turn off as expected.

I will have a try again tomorrow after partner goes to work.

R.

Manual clip for katana power amp in socket

This jack directly inputs a signal to the power amp without passing it through the preamp of the KATANA Mkll. You can use it to input sound that’s been shaped by an external preamp or by a multi- effect unit equipped with an amp simulator. If you’re using the POWER AMP IN jack, the [PANEL] button is lit green. Sound that is input to this jack is not affected by controls other the the [MASTER] knob and the [POWER CONTROL] switch. Unless you are using two KATANA Mkll units connected in stereo, leave the [STEREO EXPAND] switch or [EXPAND] switch turned "OFl The POWER AMP IN jack and the INPUT jack cannot be used simultaneously. If cables are connected to both, the INPUT jack has priority.

Now have sound, :slight_smile: attenuation was just too low, Needed about 75% .

Had a quick test, all appears to function nicely

R.

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