One more time - Crying

Odd, when I post this to these forums somehow the song is broken up when I listen to it. Perhaps it is just on my PC. It literally gets butchered. Although when I go back to SoundCloud it seems fine. I notice most people here use Youtube to display their recordings. Maybe I’ll have to figure that out. My microphone is literally attached to my desk so it becomes difficult to get reasonable audio as well as video.

Flubbed the lyrics, in some places quite a bit. Strumming is perhaps a bit fast. There are 3 or 4 barre chords in the song and for some odd reason I can make the transistion from chord to chord better when faster. Odd, perhaps it just masks the errors when faster.

https://soundcloud.com/user-187036144/crying-2?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

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Testt

Hi Mike, welcome to the forums. It seems to play ok for me. Although they never sound the same recorded as they do in the room to me. Good job for recording yourself, it definitely gives you a different perspective of your playing. It did seem a little fast at times. I am sure others will be along to give you more constructive help. Maybe go here to introduce yourself to the community. Introduce yourself ... - JustinGuitar Community

Cheers Phil

Good effort matey. It’s a pretty hard song to nail that is.

Mike the sound is OK on my side, no break ups at all. To improve this song I’d suggest you play a metronome at a bpm much slower than the tempo you’ve chosen here, then take a few bars at a time without the singing. Make it slow enough that you can play the barre chords and keep in time. When you have your rhythm steady, add the vocals, still at the same slow pace. Get this right before you increase the bpm.

I think you may be right here. Another good reason to slow down.

One other thing that may help you get the feel and the timing right is to play the song on YT at 50% speed or slower if you need to. Clap and sing. Record this on your phone, listen carefully.

Record these steps, listen carefully.

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I realize only a few have commented here thus far and I greatly appreciate the feedback (thank you Batwoman, very good advice).

If I could ask those who have listened to do a comparison vs this one. I tried to slow down. What I discovered though was that the vocals were even more of a challenge.
Much appreciate anyone who may have comments/feedback on the comparison.
Also, I’d ask, please keep in mind that given my present setup my mic is only inches from the guitar. I do realize it is LOUD. But, I’d think, if one was in the room, it might be more balanced. Not sure till I experiment some more with what I have to work with.

Ok, so sorry folks…lol. I have a 3rd. Issue is it is nearly impossible to get a feeling if one is going in the right direction while alone. Which is what is so good about this forum.

Again, same recording issues. So even though guitar and vocals are a bit slower and quieter, the ration of guitar to voice is probably the same ugliness. Thanks for y our patience.

Mark I don’t have time right now to work through two more recordings.

My suggestions were for your daily practice, over quite a few days, perhaps many days. Once you have it all in sync then more time practicing with a faster tempo for a few more days. Repeat till you get it up to tempo.

It’s been 3 hours since I posted and you re-posted new recordings. Good on you for trying again, that’s a start.

Mike, I listened to some of the first and third postings. I think the third is an improvement on the first. I think it is better than you describe, still needs polishing. The more you play and sing, the more you will develop ability to perform with feeling.

For me this has taken years, which included a year working on Chris Liepe’s Discover Your Voice course. I think there are others in the Community that have achieved this much faster. Many factors can influence this, no hard and fast rule.

It will take you how long it takes you. Be patient and gentle on yourself.

Hi Mike, I listened through your first recording then 1/2 of the third. Great Roy Orbison song! I think you’re trying to channel the rhythm as per his record? If your early on your playing guitar and singing journey that’s quite a challenge. Top marks for doing it. I’d aim to simplify it to start. Maybe listen to Don McClean’s cover of the song, which is also great, but much simpler rhythmically, I think. Well done for putting so much into this.

Good effort Mike. The songs all played fine for me.

Your first recording was a little fast, it did feel a little rushed but better tempo on the third recording. Also and it is hard to tell without seeing but it sounded to me like you didn’t keep your strumming hand moving all the time, I could be wrong though.

Some great advice from others though. Keep on keeping on.

Hi Mike

Congrats on posting another AOVYP. Took a listen and decided to hold back on commenting, as I wanted to take another listen to hear what is going. You have a good platform to work on here.

It is not easy to sing and play, like David it took me several years and yes it gets better with practice. But they key is to have the guitar side of things nailed down before you add the vocals. What I am hearing is the strumming and chord changes being distracted by you having to sing. To be able to sing while playing you need be able to play without thinking about playing, if that makes sense. If you focus on one thing the other suffers and it took me a long time to understand this, so hopefully you can learn from my experience.

@batwoman Maggie has given some good advice but I would suggest, that you work on polishing the playing side first before adding the vocals. Try playing over a backing track as well to get a feel for the rhythm.

I am not sure if you have seen it but Justin has a great lesson, on the pitfalls of singing and playing and how to get it right.

This really is a good lesson and anyone wanting to sing and play needs to watch it. To my mind it needs to be included in one of the beginner Grades and be more visible.

I note from your Intro that you are 7 months into your journey and wondered where you were Grade and module wise right now ?

This probably sounds a bit like tough love but its only intended to steer you in the right direction, so I better end on a positive note !! There is a definite improvement between the 1st and 3rd recordings, so keep working at it and I am sure you will get there.

Cheers

Toby
:sunglasses:

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Hi Mike. Some great advice already offered to you. I listened to versions 1 & 3 and there is an improvement in version 3. So well done, you’re heading in the right direction. However you can’t expect huge improvement after a few hours.
Work at the advice given and you’ll see / hear improvements

Like Toby I’d like to know what stage in the course you’re at as this is a difficult song with some tricky dynamics.

Also don’t get sidetracked by worrying about microphone positions and sound balance. Concentrate your efforts on the playing and singing side of things.

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To answer those who asked where I am in Justin’s course, I have gone through B1 and B2 in their entirety and some of B3. Along with other instruction elsewhere. Admittedly though I have not mastered each previous lesson particularly if it were something I was having great difficulty with particularly when it was introducing some other technique, (such as his introductions in fingerpicking, which I find near impossible). I found I was entertaining quitting if I got too stuck so I decided moving on was better than quitting at this time. I’m sure others have had similar experiences. And I do go back and attempt these lessons again from time to time.

Having listened to my own recordings; received the wonderful kind feedback I have received here, I think (hope) I have had a bit of an epiphany. Across the few recordings I have posted there is a similar theme. Some have tried here but haven’t quite been able to put their finger on it. Well perhaps I can sum up where I think I am going off-base (way off base from some fundamental instruction).

Those who have suggested I may be playing X2, in other words 1/16 vs 1/8. I think they are correct partially. When attempting to listen to myself I find I may be mixing it up. IN other words I double speed randomly. Or perhaps, not so much randomly but in an attempt to “sing with my guitar” if that makes any sense to you. In my attempts to not sound robotic with a chosen pattern and trying to maintain that pattern, I attempt (almost unconsciously) to embellish the sound with my strumming (which quickly becomes erratic strumming). When doing this my vocals become in competition with the guitar and both suffer as a result.

So, what is the plan to combat this problem? Take a huge step back is the answer I think. I am going to take the advice I received from many here and split up my song attempts to perfecting (to whatever degree is possible) the chord progressions while NOT deviating from the pattern. and NOT attempting to embellish (or fight the urge at least). Once I get it down, try to introduce the vocals. I am sure this will result in my dreaded fear of sounding robotic. But this is what I mean by taking a big step back. Go from my present erratic playing to robotic playing. Then trying to move forward from there.

Anyway, this will take a great deal of time, maybe months. I hope to be back. But will be a while :wink:

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Sounds like a good plan Mike and don’t be afraid to seek advice if you think you need it. Sometimes going back to a single strum per beat can get you locked into the rhythm, as I mentioned in the reply to your other recent post, then work from their. If you have not done so already I would suggest creating a Learning Log to track your progress. As much for your own benefit, as well as sharing your journey.

Cheers

Toby
:sunglasses:

Sounds like a sensible plan, Mike. Have fun as you keep practicing, enjoy the journey.

Going slow in the beginning and laying solid foundations will lead to faster progress to achieve the level and goals you aspire to in the medium to long term.

We each progress at our own pace, for many reasons. Personally It is in the last year or so that I think I broke through and start to play with better feeling, began to sing a little more like a singer and less like a ‘guitar player’ wanting to add some words and melody which was quite robotic. And the singer progress came after working slowly through a singing course. Not everybody seems to need that to the extent I did but hey ho, we are all different. Took me 5 years from when I started with JustinGuitar, with some limited and poor prior learning.

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You’ve summed your issue up perfectly I think. And that in itself is a major step forward. Recognising the problem means you can work at resolving it. Well done. I look forward to following your progress.

Gordon,

Following the advice from Toby I looked into the learning log. Of which I found your post.

Pretty amazing, the commonalities in our two journeys! LOL, beginning with the teenage years (I’ll leave out the details but almost identical to yours), followed by the passion for a 2-wheel girl magnet. Even our bikes are similar. After my ducati scooter years around age 12, I ultimately got a BSA Royal Star 500. Following that a 1972 Harley Sportster (I live in America BTW) , then a 4 cylinder 750 Honda CB (I believe) before finally laying down the bikes and taking up boating and saltwater fishing for the rest of my life. Often consider a new bike and oddly enough I was thinking a Triumph Bonneville 120.

Anyway just got a kick of it all. BTW, as previously stated, I am 7-8 months in. I sure hope to be where you are at say at your July/2020 performance of Knocking on Heavens door. In fact given my recent epiphany, that just might a good song to try to establish my fundamentals. I just found the chord progressions and they are easy enough for me to concentrate on tempo and strumming, instead of trying to go to far too fast.

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Good choice ! Good to see another biker here !
:sunglasses:

Hi Mike glad you enjoyed the LL read. Interesting to hear that our teenage paths were similar. I think most peoples’ are! :smile:
Knockin’ is a song you should have a go at. It’s 4 open chords, 2 verses and 2 choruses so it’s a straightforward structure which allows you to concentrate on your rhythm etc.
I did a ‘remake’ of the song a couple of months ago which I think was a big improvement on the July 2020 version. Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door - Bob Dylan - remastered!

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