Play What You Hear Exercise

Ear Training Ear Training - Introduction
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what is meant by “in position” ? thanks

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Exactly. :slight_smile: “In position” means you try to stay as close as possible to the fret you started with so in the example you gave, you would try to stay in frets 5, 6, 7, 8 (if your first finger started on the 5th fret, or 5, 4, 3, 2 if your fourth finger started on the fifth fret) and play on any string in those frets, but if none of those notes in those four frets sound right (aren’t high or low enough for the melody you’re playing), you can go up or down a couple frets outside of that, if you need to.

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I am struggling with this. I did learn how to play Happy Birthday from Justin PROPERLY so maybe that’s the wrong song? maybe I am in my head too much? Any more tips on how to do this?

Maybe the key is to simply not give a sh*p? I tried doing this for 5 minutes and it was horrendous. No instruction, no guidance, not even a starting note and I felt so naked and exposed for not having any understanding of the fretboard!

I took today off, I think I will heed the 5 days a week practice schedule despite having played for nearly 3 years because I do get burn out when I typically practice 8-12 days without a rest.

Any tips for tomorrow? I will try something I have zero instruction with but think I know well even if I don’t; twinkle twinkle little star… not sure what else to do.

What other question since we are working with intervals should we stick with the notes in a given octave ONLY when working out a song? so 12 notes for each song? will that simplify the exercise or does that oversimplify it and create restrictions we don’t necessarily want?

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Wow, @Lasher, sounds like you’re thinking too much. (Psst: personally I don’t mind, but I think the moderators here do not like cussing. Not sure why, since the average community member is old enough to have seen the Beatles live.)

Here are a few tips:

  1. You should choose a melody that you know very well (in your head), but don’t know how to play on guitar. Personally, I would choose a song that I love and not some nursery rhyme, but whatever.

  2. It doesn’t matter what note you start on.

  3. You don’t need to know any scale. You’re just hunting around for the right notes. If you knew the correct key (given your choice of 1st note), then you could use the major scale to restrict the possible notes, but you don’t know the key.

  4. The song may span more than one octave, so be ready to go there. Most of the notes in most melodies fall in one octave. Often just one or two notes go up high, more than an octave above the 1st note.

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@jjw
Thank you

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I have trouble too, with the other songs. Maybe I will start with this one first I guess.

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I just finished this lesson and it got me back 30+ years. In my primary school we had to play recorder (had to google for English word) as part of mandatory music lessons. I loved the instrument and hated the exercises and music we had to play in school. However, at home, I did exactly what Justin asks here. I played songs/tunes by trial and error. At first it is hard and takes time, but becomes easier and easier. I am so happy I managed to do “Happy Birthday” from both positions Justin suggested within 5 minutes. :slight_smile:

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Hello

How do you know if what you have worked out by ear is right? I did happy birthday and I thought I had it right but the lesson then showed something different.

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Matt,
I’m right there with you. Ear training is hard that’s why, like you, I gave up and moved on. So now a year later I’ve decided to supplement Justin’s guidance with a human teacher.
First lesson, Play Happy Birthday for me. UGH!! I can’t!
His lesson, was basically what Justin told me a year ago. If you want to be good at this, you have to do ear training, so go home and figure out how to play Happy Birthday and come back when you are ready. No cheating.
I have spent hours on it and it just doesn’t sound right, but now is the time to work on it.
I’ve gotten back to Justin’s Ear Training App and also downloaded Perfect Ear as recommended by @Rolandson
Justin suggests five minutes a day, I wish I had followed his advice.
Mike

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I hope your guitar journey has been fun!

Semper Fi!

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Mike @mtglazer
I have had another go and pretty happy with first bar, still to work on second bar when I can find the enthusiasm.
Michael

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I understand the importance of ear training and I want to work on it, but having this be the very first lesson is doing more harm than good, at least for me. This is by far the most frustrating “lesson” (is telling students to “just figure it out” really a lesson?) so far, and the first that is setting a newbie like me up for failure. I think, looking at the responses to questions/concerns on this forum, seasoned guitar players are a little out of touch with where new players start from and what we are dealing with.

Ie twinkle twinkle little star… are there two notes in twinkle or just one? Is “notes” even the correct terminology for each time I pluck the string? Where do I start on the fretboard? I can start anywhere?!? But most places don’t sound right, I’ve never heard twinkle, twinkle little star on a guitar, so I don’t really know. Okay… so I started on some random place and I’ve tried every single position of the guitar, nothing sounded right, now what? Isn’t there more to music than just a series of notes? I’m lost, this sucks.

What I’m getting at is that a little more structure would be helpful for a newbie like myself, ease us into it. Otherwise 90% of new students will see zero success and associate ear training with failure… I just don’t have what it takes, I’m too old to learn this, etc etc.

How about putting up a scale diagram and marking all the notes that appear in a particular song/riff with an X. The song is somewhere in those notes, now figure it out. Do that for a month with new, progressively difficult songs, and then throw “just figure it out” at us.

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Hi Eric @Eboyd, welcome to the community from a fellow beginner! For what it’s worth, I’m working on this lesson too, and get frustrated. After about three weeks on this, here are some (newbie) thoughts:

  • I think one of the aims of this exercise is to train our ears to hear the distance (notes or tones? I’m not sure…maybe both or either) between notes. For Twinkle Twinkle, we know the distance between the first and second notes is a fifth, because that’s what we learned in an earlier lesson. So, no matter what note you start with on the guitar, you can find the second note.

  • Assuming the above is correct, my approach is to try to guess how many notes (or alternatively, tones) are between the note I’m on and the next one. I play it to see if it sounds right, and if not I try again. And on for each note.

  • I thought this would be easy, but it isn’t! I confess, when I worked my way through Twinkle Twinkle, I looked up the melody online to confirm what I’d done. (Of course, I had to adjust for the key, but we’ve learned how to do that. Kinda cool really!)

  • I tried this exercise with a couple songs that I play in practice and know well. I failed miserably! So after Twinkle Twinkle, I was on to Mary Had a Little Lamb. Baby steps.

  • I think some people are more “naturals” at this than others. Kind of like everything else in guitar. :wink: I’m not a natural. :rofl: For example: I found identifying perfect octaves harder than the fourths and fifths! I currently suspect it’s because I don’t sing well, and my vocal range is only a little over an octave anyway. There are some notes that I simply can’t sing an octave higher or lower, and I wonder if that’s why they are difficult for me to hear as well. Whatever the reason, the solution is the same: keep at it.

I think part of what you’re experiencing more generally is a by-product of learning online — that is, the lack of individual, personal feedback in the moment. (This is not a complaint! It’s simply a fact of the learning delivery system.) This community exists in part to provide an area to engage such feedback. That said, I agree with your observation that the beginner experience could be improved. Everyone here is well-meaning, but I believe there is value in having the opportunity to discuss experiences with others at (or very near) one’s level in the moment. Then one can reach out to the more advanced folks for further advice or validation. I suspect this would help with the learning process for many beginners.

Even with these inherent challenges, I’m grateful to Justin for creating an amazing service, delivering high-quality instruction, with minimal (and often no) cost to students. And really, this community is fabulous!

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@Eboyd
Hi Eric
“just figure it out” is pretty much what Play What You Hear is all about. You’re trying to figure out what the next note is. You do this by hearing the note either on a recording or in your head or by singing it and then finding that note on guitar. It is very much a matter of trial and error, especially in the early stages.

Justin isn’t leaving you high and dry with it though. He can’t do it for you, so in this lesson he’s showing you how to go about figuring it out. Maybe worth watching the lesson again. You might find something you missed the first time. Or now that you have a better understanding of how hard it is, something might stand out and make more sense now.

I would say don’t do this lesson in isolation. Don’t think that you have to get good at this before you move on with ear training.
The main body of the ear training course is the intervals. Justin shows you what they are, what they sound like and where to find them on guitar in relation to the root note.
If you look-learn-listen to these intervals, especially on guitar, it will help you with the play what you hear exercise.

Developing your ear is an on-going thing, it won’t happen overnight so take it easy and enjoy it. :guitar:

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Humm. Can you provide the link and perhaps I can make suggestions as I’ve just completed the Ear Training. I’m actually going to be making a video regarding “Play What You Hear” which may help you. I’ll post it in my own learning log but I’ll toss a link over here when it is complete.

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Ok Eric. Like you, I need structure when I’m first learning. Later? Not so much. So let me walk along with you and try to get a grip on your concerns. I think you may be here in this video link. You just started right? https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/play-what-you-hear-exercise-et-002

I understand what Justin is shooting for here. He’s challenging you to explore. So you hear a note and attempt to find in on the fretboard. Yeah. That can seem very overwhelming. How can you know what you don’t know? But there are ways to approach the problem.

If you have just started, you may not have any references to notes or intervals yet. As well, you may have no idea regarding basic scales. So let me help by providing some reference points.

First. Without having any knowledge of notes, intervals, or scales - just try to find what you hear.
Example (see video assistance below). If this helps let me know and I’ll continue with some strategies to approach Justin’s Ear Training course.

Dang! What a handsome mug, 'eh? :laughing:

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Thank for doing that, huge help! The problem was that I did not listen to the song like you did. I sung the song in my head and out loud and was immediately lost. I assumed twinkle was two notes (but wasn’t sure), and I had no idea if they were the same note or different notes.

Listening to the song in midi form (or played on an instrument in general) like you did makes this whole thing completely approachable. I think trying to work out a song by singing it is a bit more advanced, but that’s what we’re asked to do in the video, hence the confusion and frustration. Looking at some older comments on this forum, I think this may be the sticking point a lot of us newbies are experiencing.

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I think the confusion a lot of people like myself are experiencing is with trying to do this exercise off singing rather that listening to it played. The video and write up makes it seem like going off singing would be the most approachable or at least as approachable as listening.

I don’t have enough experience to distinguish between notes when I sing a song, even one as familiar at happy b-day or twinkle twinkle little star. I wasn’t sure if “twinkle” or “happy” was two notes or one, and if two, are they different/the same. Listening to the songs played on midi, keyboard, guitar, etc makes this exercise completely approachable for someone brand new to music.

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@Eboyd
You’re right Eric,
Justin does approach this exercise from the point of singing or being able to imagine the sound of the song in your head.
If that isn’t working for you then it’s fine to try it by listening to recordings of some sort.

It must be daunting for you being new to music and playing an instrument.
Just my thoughts, but I would say don’t worry about ear training at this stage. Grade1 of the beginners courses will get you playing guitar and music and that will expose you to the sounds of the guitar and the notes.
That in itself will help develop your ear without even thinking about it.

Have fun :guitar:

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I agree with this. Learn how to play the basic open chords, some songs, some riffs. Then come back to the ear training.

I think you will find that what is now a big, frustrating struggle will come much more easily once you have some basic playing ability.

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