Iâm not singling you out Dom this applies to everyone who is having trouble.
This is why most people have trouble with not just ear training but all aspects of learning to play an instrument.
Theyâre looking for a short cut and spend countless hours searching for the golden goose where there isnât one.
In reality if you spent 5 minutes a day doing the exercises Justin or any teacher has laid out in a month things would start to click.
If you canât do step 1 step 2 will be impossible but if you spend the time(it doesnât matter how long it takes, could be years) to learn steps 1 2 and 3 the rest will start to come naturally.
But you donât have to tell someone like me who has stuck to the guitar for 5 years now with quite a few days with several hours of practicing/playing that thereâs nothing really like a free lunch.
Well - throughout my life, in various areas, I often found some ways to be working better for me than others, didnâ you?
I find pursuing to improve our own practice a good thing and to me, it sounded like Justin would rather encourage this.
And if I understood Justin correctly, he is always open to question himself, his own old learning or old teaching methods as weâve see in a few videos and is open to new ideas or scientific findings.
Now I just started ear training again and I have the impression that itâs easier for me this way. Maybe it#s only me. Itâs too early for a conclusion, but Iâll see it soon.
And even if that works better for me, it also might only be me being more receptive to it these times⌠who knows.
DominiqueâŚâask Why and youâll get to the truth, youâll get to your truth, which is the most important truthâ. (Quoting the very last sentences from the video) âŚand youâll be fine! âŚweâll be fine, both of us! guaranteed
But this wonât happen, not for everyone Rick, itâs not a waste of time trying to understand things, itâs not looking for a golden goose, but trying to make sense of how things work and why they are so hard to you and try your own path to learn effectivelyâŚespecially if you keep practicing
for months and feel frustrated and overwhelmed. I highly appreciate Justinâs teachings and nevertheless I ask why and often question them because I want to understand, not because I donât trust himâŚand when I donât understand itâs not because of him but because of me not being ready to understandâŚand probably me as Dominique we are not ready for Ear Training for guitarists as Justin presents itâŚwhy should I struggle to find the sounds on the whole neck of the guitar when Iâm probably struggling to hear or remember correctly those sounds? One thing at the time, if one works on Rhythm he doesnât switch chords, better to mute the strings right? If I work on sounds just give me the simplest of keyboards.
Silvia @Silvia80
I saw the words âear trainingâ a while ago an instantly thought I am keeping well away from that given my many attempts and failures at interval ear training in the past. However, I have reluctantly come back to it and watched the video. It was more than just interval ear training and more about hearing a melody and playing it. I agree with Michael @mfeeney0110 that the presenter repeated things many times and could have shortened it considerably. But I did notice the expression the âcontour of the melodyâ see my comments below about the same sort of thing.
I am very impressed of those at the guitar club who very quickly work out the melody of a song they have not heard before. I canât get past the first three notes of Happy Birthday. I saw it done recently of a song that I am sure he had not heard before, we strummed through it a couple of times and while we had a short break before going on the next song he picked away and after a few attempts he had the melody down. I am not sure he was working out what the intervals where but was transcribing the melody from his musical mind onto the guitar. He did end up playing lead guitar when we played the song at the concert.
Not sure what the issue for me, perhaps remembering a limited list of notes it is more about working out do they go up or down and how big is the interval. I agree with the comment in the video that comparing it to a song for the interval is not helpful â Sorry Justin.
I do take singing lessons, although some people in household think I am wasting my time and they may be right although my singing teacher says I am not too bad, however I remain to be convinced. I approach a song in a very mechanical way which my teacher said if it helps do it. I plot (contour as mentioned above) as a line on the chord sheet how the melody goes up and down, generally by using sheet music or UG Sing, and I do listen to the original to see if my plot is any good. I use this initially when learning a song until I get the idea in my mind. Am I singing the right notes and intervals probably only by chance. Recently I mentioned to my teacher the problem I have had with interval ear training she said why not try âsight singingâ from sheet music. This is where it gets scary, I had heard of it but didnât really know that much about it. Basically, you have to express the note pitch and duration from what is shown on standard notation on the fly. First problem I donât read standard notation although I am having to learn it quickly. You express the note using tonic solfege or numbers of scale with right duration with rests that gives the rhythm. Very early days but I am interested see how it goes and if it helps, wish me luck.
Michael
Sorry for the late reply Silvia @Silvia80
You understand more than you give yourself credit. Iâve been listening to your chord melody songs and your ear is very much in tune. You hear the intervals and play them, your not just picking random notes from the fret board your are picking the correct notes in the correct key.
This in itâs self is ear training. You donât need to know what the intervals are by name. You just need to know they are the ones your looking for.
Ear training is all about listening to music and being able to play what you hear and youâre further along than you think.
Michael,
The thing about song references in ear training is that they are just a guideâŚthatâs all. You have to know the song though. If you donât know the song, then they are neither use nor ornament!
Justin uses them in a way that lets you hear an interval in the context of a well known song.
Take Auld Lang Syne, for instance. Itâs used to demonstrate the Perfect 4th interval. Itâs just the first 2 notes of the song, on the lyrics âShould oldâ
If you know the song then youâll probably be able to hear those first 2 notes in your mindâŚâShould oldââŚ
The Perfect 4th can easily be found from any note on the guitar. Itâs one string down on the same fret as the root note. So if the root is on 6th string then the Perfect 4th is 5th string, same fret. This works for any root note on guitarâŚ.except when the root is on the 3rd string, in which case, the Perfect 4th is one fret up on the 2nd string.
Try it.
Play any note and then the P4th and sing âShould old â
Starting from a different root just means youâre starting the song at a different pitch or key.
David @BurnsRhythm
Getting back to the fundamentals, why do I want to do ear training at all. For me it is to help with my singing and not for transcribing, certainly not in the foreseeable future.
Your key point about song references âyou need to know the songâ thatâs where I fall down. In the list Justin produces for each interval I know only a few of them well enough to be of any use. As you say Auld Lang Syne is an obvious one but if you are not confident of the songs for the other major and perfect intervals then it is not much help. In past I have done a lot of research on Ear Training and there are certainly mixed views about using song references.
I do have Justinâs Ear Training app and have used it, perhaps I should give it another go as well as Justinâs ear training course, in parallel with sight singing.
Pitch is Pitch if you can sing a note you can play it. It may be easier for you to do the ear training with a voice coach (online or in person) first then take what you learn for singing and transfer it to you guitar.
I think Justin puts so much into Transcribing because this is how he learnt (like most of us in the 70âs and 80âs). there was no other way to learn if you wanted to learn popular songs.
Now with the internet people can just download tabs which in some ways is sad because new musicians are learning music with their eyes and not there ears.
Do you know Major scale pattern 1?
If not, then I suggest you learn it. You can then sing along with itâŚDoh Re Mi style, matching your singing with what you play.
Once you learn the finger pattern, you can move it up and down the neck for whatever key.
Good luck MichaelâŚIâm sure youâll do well! Things often feel a bit difficult at the beginning but you know what youâre doing and when you can see the meaning you will be able to read your experience and feeling of the music you practice!
My humble analyse of this would be:
He was able to get a clear mental/aural picture of what the melody was , he could ârememberâ it really well without distorting the pitches
He could hear the intervals on autopilot with no need to name them, which is probably something most of us can do
He had a solid knowledge of how and where the intervals are played on the guitar neck.
My point is no one will ever be able to transcribe a melody from his/her musical mind if that melody is not well defined and clear in the first place in its pitch and rhythmical qualities. Hope it makes sense.
Iâm afraid weâre on the same boat! The professional one is your teacher so itâs the one who knows better! And we all have the right to decide for ourselves how best we want to waste our time! (why, btwâŚfinding purpose and joy in our development and progress is a very noble human goal)
What Iâm able to understand well are my limits and trying to be able to make the most within them.
If youâre a good observer, which Iâm sure you are, youâll have noticed that in all my chord melodies I transpose the chords either to the key of C or G. I then use a capo to maintain the original key (I couldnât do this for I Will by The Beatles) and it doesnât come too difficult to work out the melodies, I can listen to the original recording whenever I need toâŚand Iâm learning also to tell quite easily where my notes are because I limit myself to look for them in the C Major Scale basic pattern, I think itâs the first one Justin teaches in the Beginner Course (the key of G is as much easy because the only difference is a # on F, and of course the root note, but the notes are just the same on the guitar neck).
Iâm not able to find melodies starting from a random fret on the neck, not at this point âŚand thatâs ok. Learning to make music is the goal, thatâs what makes me happy, and we can just start simple and do it the way weâre able to. I think I will get to be able to do the Play what you hear exercise all around the neck but before that I need to make sure I can hear well and be able to retain accurately what I hearâŚlike those simple tunes as Happy Birthday or Baba Black sheep.
I find the CMajor Scale pattern using open strings to be way easier, you donât have to fret all the notes and the relation between the scale and your beginner chords is easily recognisable. Capo is a great cheat indeed to maintain the original key !! I recently learned this is called âMoveable Doâ (C) Thatâs what I do for my chord melodiesâŚand it works great for me! As we progress we can move to the Major Scales Patterns and develop our knowledge of the fretboard too.
I think what youâre doing is fine, Silvia. Itâs certainly working for you and you know thereâs the option to move up the neck without the capo when youâre ready to go exploring!
Did you know that the open position C Major scale is actually one of the five movable scale patterns?
Itâs pattern 3
Also known as the C shape in the CAGED system.
David @BurnsRhythm Rick @stitch
Some really interesting points and comments and which I will respond sometimes I should say perhaps I under sell my abilities at times, but not this time, see the PS.
David your comments - Yes, I know the major scale, I enrolled on Justinâs theory course shortly after I started and have currently worked through and about to start Grade 5.4 Harmonic Analysis so well through what you might call the basics.
In terms of major scale Patterns learnt No 1 early on as I though it was useful as it worked on accuracy and coordinating both hands, As my vocal range is G2 to E4, I added Pattern No 4 as this gave me root notes on sting 5 as well as string 6. The fretting finger positions relative to the starting fret are the same for the initial octave. I have toyed with 3NPS but not really looked at in any detail. Yes I sing the major scale as part of singing lessons, and these two shapes work nicely with my vocal range. Until recently have used Tonic Solfege Do ReâŚ. but recently moved on the 1 2 3 âŚ. for sight singing basically for my brain works much better with numbers when going up and down and is an acceptable way of doing it.
I really play rhythm guitar but have started to incorporate some single line melodies you often get as riffs as the intro of a song, working from tabs. Interestingly the one I am working on at present I converted all the tabs to notes and they all where from E Major scale which no surprise as the key of the song is E. David rather worryingly it sounds as though I am creeping toward that Red Tele!
Rick
I am not too bad of playing a note and then singing it, I often do this with the note played on guitar and checking it on a pitch monitor. Looking at the abilities at Ear Training there is a spectrum, (modern word I would have just used range) of abilities with the extremes as Tone Deaf up to Perfect Pitch but very few people are in these two categories, everybody else is somewhere in between, so most people have some skill and obviously ear training should help to improve it. I need to knuckle down and give ear training another go.
Michael
PS I thought I would have a go at the Grade 1 Ear Training Test, which to the best of my knowledge I have never done before just to see what my base line is, bearing in mind not really done much on ET recently and got a rather embarrassing 30% right, a lot of confusion between 4th and 5th Intervals â only one to go from here!
PPS Started to wonder if chance would give a better result. So, I kept my Octave results and then for the question which have answers 4th or 5th I flipped coin and the overall result gave 50% correct. Statistically may not be particularly convincing but it is a bit sobering.
Have you tried it the other way round? Sing the note then play it on the guitar.
Take a song you know well and know you sing in key. Sing the opening line then see if you can figure it out your guitar. Single notes first the see if you can figure out the chord changes.
Thatâs how I figure out songs by ear but use the recording not my voice
Well I donât believe that for one minute.
I think youâre probably dithering on the test. You hear the interval and think itâs that. But you donât trust your ear so you change your mindâŚand get it wrong!
Thatâs why I say forget about the test. The test just gives you one interval and youâre not sure. If you play both intervals on guitar, you wonât have a problem with it.
Play all the intervals (from the root) in the scale. Play them slowly. Compare them - can you hear that they each have a unique sound?
Keep playing them
Keep singing along
Keep doing it
It doesnât matter whether you use do re mi or 1 2 3 - whatever suits you.
You say ear training should help with your singing. Yes it will! And it will work the other way round too. Your singing lessons will help your ear.
PS Donât forget to tune the red tele when you get it or all this ear development will go up in smoke!!
Rick @stitch
Good idea will give I a try, I think I am going to try a lot of different ways and see if it brings some success and will try not to give up this time.
Michael
Yes the coin toss was better than me, didnât do anything underhand. Its a long time since i did statistics but if you did it enough times you would expect by chance you would get an equal number of heads and tails, but if you add in that head would give you the correct answer a 4th but a tail would not that is bound to affect the number of correct and incorrect answers. A statistician might be able to give a better probability of the outcome.
As you say the test just gives you one interval to determine whereas working out the melody is more about having the tune in you mind.
As i said to Rick going to work on a few different techniques.
Michael
PS do you recommend a hard of soft case for the red tele?
You could argue a case for a hard case and you could argue a case for a soft case but a case to argue is that you canât play a guitar when itâs in its case and in case youâre wondering, my strat came with a hard case so, in any case, Iâm a hard case! Hope that helps!
guaranteed 
