Tom
Have you seen this ?
3 Likes
Tom @Thallman
Plenty of advice above from those more knowledgeable than me all I would say is be patient and keep at it you will crack it.
Michael
This is the key thing to do Tom, I would only add, decrease the Bpm, that will help you a lot.
Oh noā¦for me itās the strumming that requires more focus! This proves how different we all are.
Iām working at the moment on the Strumming Dynamics (I found Grade 1 really helpful and valuable). Iām one of those who used to practice singing and strumming at the same time (but keeping time), as itās not advised to doā¦ooopsā¦only if you are patient with your only downstrums on the beat, you tap your foot and move your hand consistently strumming patterns will come naturally - strumming patterns are overated, IMHO.
Iām doing now a step back and practice the strumming on its own, without singing, to enhance my Rhythm game and I must admit that on one hand my Rhythm is really improving while on the other hand incorporating the singing is hard!
I believe with practice things will fall into place.
3 Likes
For me, I think the challenge is the timing and phrasing. When the words of a line start on beat 1 and have the right number of syllables (whatever that may be), I am generally ok. But mostly words donāt start exactly on the beat, eg sometimes the first word of the line starts between the previous up strum and the down strum.
My observation is that some people seem (I must stress āseemā) to naturally be able to sing over their playing (not saying eitehr is perfect, but seems to flow). Others, like me, seem to struggle.
And of course, all the pointers above are in play
1 Like
David @DavidP
I think as a beginner like me you can get too hung up on matching chords and lyrics precisely and in a way that makes combining the two difficult. Yes when I learn a song I try to do this, but I would expect some of the limited songs I can play and sing from memory if I analysed them now they are probably not perfect in this regard. However I take the view I am making music not sitting an exam and I use Justinās maxim, as an excuse, āif it sounds good it is goodā
Michael
4 Likes
Iāme with you, Michael. I seldom worry about how I sound relative to the original. Hence Iāve received comments about how āwell I made the song my ownā. Needless to say, if I sing a song and it sounds good, regardless of how it matches the original, there is a fair degree of good fortune involved. That said, I have improved over the years, most significantly after the Chris Liepe course. As expected the quality of my singing improved in general. What I didnāt expect to improve as much as it seemed to was the ability to play and sing in a way that sounded less mechanical.
3 Likes
Agree. I think how well you really know the song comes in to play. Thatās where I think Justinās feel good strumming exercise can also help where you mute the strings and strum along with the original really getting the feel of it and then when youāre feel youāve got the strumming pattern automated start singing along.
1 Like
One of my favourite artists is Willie Nelson and for me a big aspect of that is how he sings a song. Willie is known for not singing on the beat. An example of this is a quote from Waylon Jennings:
Typically, Willie is so off the beat when he starts off that Waylon thinks there will be no way for Willie to snap back into the groove. But, he āalways comes out of it,ā Waylon says. What is it about Willie Nelsonās singing? | genemyers.com (wordpress.com)
So worrying about the āexactā phrasing isnāt the biggest thing we need worry about, Letās just make it sound good.
Cheers
Glen
2 Likes
A bunch of good suggestions so for. If Iām struggling with singing at the same time, humming the melody (or singing la) over the guitar part helps me as a bridge to adding lyrics. I can focus about how things line up without worrying about remembering or reading words, and if I need to, I can also slow the song way down and still hum along without having to hold words way too long
1 Like
Yeah, me too.
My solution was to do my own chord and lyric sheets with chord changes exactly aligned with the lyrics - down to individual syllables, and aligned with the downbeats and upbeats in each bar for the really tricky bits.
Very tedious, but I find I can then āsight readā the sheets, practice perfectly, and get the phrasing and strumming down fairly quickly.
It also helps you recognize patterns. For example, in Wish You Were Here, both the riff and most (but not all!) vocal lines start on the āand of 3ā. And this pattern repeats throughout the whole song.
And by going through this process with multiple songs, I find - more and more - I can wing it with new songs and get things right with far less effort then previously. Itās a form of transcribing.
Other things that have helped:
- progress from single strums per bar to 4 strums per bar to strumming pattern while singing
- use the Moises app to slow down songs, and mute all tracks except vocals and drums. Also has a very useful Smart Metronome feature that will add a click to any song.
I know this works for many people, but for me it just messes me up if I try to do it too soon. But often my foot starts tapping - spontaneously, magically- once I start to get a grip on the song!
2 Likes
Well said! Thatās the secret sauce right there. Out of that automation and foot tapping comes your own sense of time and expression. Play on playa!
1 Like
For me, itās easier to automatise separate pieces of a song. But when I try to play the whole song from start to finish, it is often easier to do with singing because singing helps me know where I am in the song structure.
Hi Tom @Thallman
In addition to the many good points already mentioned, here are two additional points that were important for me:
Same as Tom @Tbushell , I find it very helpful to have a sheet with chord changes aligned with the individual syllables. Now, if you use prewritten material, itās worth noting that Justinās material is reliable, however the quality of other sources can vary. Itās better to double check than getting confused.
Second, singing to the original recording helped me to double check and to find out what I need to do differently.
Totally! Iām still blown away by this community! RockānāRoll! 
4 Likes
Tom, thanks for the good tips. I have written out my own song sheets with chords above the correct syllables, but havenāt tried to add the correct rhythm counts. I have been a bit lazy about that and usually just memorize how the rhythm is supposed to sound. But that has gotten me into to trouble before when playing and singing.
2 Likes
I am the same as you, Tom. I think for me, itās once the playing and singing are all just automated then the foot just starts moving on itās own.
2 Likes
For me, tapping my foot just seems like something else that I need to manage (Iām not saying itās wrong just beyond what Iām capable of right now). Unfortunately I tend to hold my strumming pattern by basically humming the rhythm in my head so as soon as I try to sing the strumming goes to pot. I canāt decide if this humming is a bad habit I need to break now or just more a sign that much more practice is needed.
I think this is probably a bad habit - I suspect it uses the same parts of the brain that are used for singing.
For me, it feels like my strumming patterns are in in my strumming arm/hand, not my head. Iāve automated it enough that I can think at a higher level i.e. āChorus coming up! Switch from OF to pumping 8ths strum!ā and keep singing.
Of course, itās not always that smooth, and I often have to isolate those transitions and really practice them, until they flow nicely when Iām playing the song.
Justin has a āfeel good strummingā exercise. Putting in some more time on that would probably help you.
1 Like
I come at this from a different angle to most, I learn the cords, with only a feel for the strumming and I do not attempt to copy a recommended or original struming pattern. Without that extra pattern baggage in your head you can learn to sing the song and strum. After you are confident and it becomes automatic you can then start to move some focus on tweaking the strumming how you want in small steps and in a far more relaxed manner.
Works for me.
As for finger picking or picking out single notes whilst singing, I have no chance, my brain canāt do it - ha ha.
You should say your brain canāt do it YET, as you evolve and things like fingerpicking become more automated it will likely happen.