All solid advice and a great lifestyle!
Congratultations on quitting smoking! If you managed a year, the hardest part is behind you for sure!
Singing in the car is where I laid my foundations for my Johnny Cash songs 
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Cool… the car is great for that especially if you wanna try to find your upper range.
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Nobody to judge you there
Be mindful though, sitting in your car will give you less range than standing upright!
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Hi Folks,
Still, I don’t think it’s a good idea to stand in your car behind your steering wheel and then sing 
…
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Now standing on the pegs on your bike and singing is a different matter. 
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Surely that’s another matter…I’m going to do it in a moment, will you call my insurance company?..
Oh wait I can’t now, I have to get ready for a hard task tonight…practice clapping to the computer 
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I think there’s loads of good stuff in this thread, even though I’m not really a singer. The right key was the light bulb bit for me a few years ago.
I didn’t think I was a singer at all, until someone asked me to sing bass in a scratch choir. I found that my range tops out at about middle C and I have the 2 octaves below it, maybe down to the B on a good day. Once I realised that, it was a short step to realising that I needed to find the keys I can sing songs in. The piano is usually my tool of choice rather than a capo, but it’s the same idea.
My (possibly educated) guess is that most people can sing, they just need to find the key that fits their range for the song they are singing.
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Simon @simon_plays_bass
I said in a post the other day this is guitar community not a singing community however as Justin does cover singing in general terms and Lieven @LievenDV has dealt with in various Club sessions it is valid.
You are completely correct you need to find the right key for your voice. A trap that I fell into and I expect others have as well is that Justin will teach a song in the original key (to be fair he does often mentions changing it)and you try to sing it that key which might be totally unsuitable. Take an example, I am working on a John Denver song in the key of D. I am a baritone, but his upper range is well above what I can do and even trying it sounded terrible. So I got an official copy of the song and used various free apps that allow you to alter the pitch and by adjusting down by two semitones I can manage that so D became C. However you then need to transpose the chords, perhaps not something a beginner guitar players knows how to do, it took me a while to understand how to do it and perhaps the confidence to do.
So yes you definitely need find the right key for voice.
Michael
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I feel encouraged. I can only sing relaxed and get in tune easier when no one is around.
Whenever I open my mouth in public I feel I have a lump in my throat and a rope around my neck. My voice gets high and tight in pitch.
One thing is stress the other is the voice of my dad in my head I remember from childhood when he just once ridiculed me singing a kindergarten song…
It’s this very difficult for me to get out of this vicious circle and open up. When I speak it’s so much easier because I can’t talk myself into the mindset of being at least a decent speaker, like I know how to make people laugh or sound competent.
With singing it’s like neither good nor confident though.
Those 2 go hand in hand.
it won’t get good if it isn’t confident enough.
Being nervous to sing in the presence of other people can indeed hold you back, cause tensions you don’t need etc.
The actual act of singing can be a bit paradoxal when you think of it:
You have to stand there (please stand up) and open up, be vurneable showing yourself, expressing yourself BUT you have to do it with confidence. That’s 2 things at once that both require some courage.
What you experience is normal and a stage most of us had to go through.
So did I.
I felt so akward singing in the presence of my family, trying to practice my singing while playing.
At a certain point, you’ll have to feel proud enough in order to not mind mind them being there
Don’t forget these tips:
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Find the best key to sing in, as mentioned before. You’ll feel most comfortable if you are in your optimal range for a song. Here’s a Live Club about transposing
https://www.youtube.com/live/yVrT3XJgr7A
Slide deck: M&I #16 | Change The Key of a Song by Transposing - Google Slides -
You sing with your whole body. Standing up is always better to get vocal support. relax your shoulders and let your arms hang down
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Stage fright is a physical thing; it is our nature to associate a lot of the properties of a public performance with being hunted. There are actual physical things you can do to counter this by playing the game along with the hormones who put you in those states. A short physical effort will makes your body chill and cool down, just as it would after being hunted on and escaping to somewhere safe. Using that “post chill” after a brief run around the block, doing some push up/sit up reps or whatever could mellow you down a couple of minutes later, after your heart rate dropped again and hormones were introduced to calm your body.
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Wish I found this thread earlier. I wonder how many can relate to my little story.
When I began playing guitar about 3 years ago now, I took to it fairly well because I was so focused. I practiced all the time. The one thing I did not think about much at the beginning stage of this journey was that rhythm acoustic guitar is meant to be accompanied by singing. I never thought much of this, possibly because my voice sounded so good echoing off the shower walls or from the front seat of my car.
Then as time passed and I was getting either no response on my singing or wise-crack little comments I quickly learned that 50% or more of my performance was destined for failure I began to feel as though I wasted,at this point, hundreds of hours practicing guitar. I didn’t think, and still don’t, that there is a solution to this problem. I’m not really one for taking lessons on voice. I just can’t see myself humming do re me fa … and learning my “head” voice and my other voice (what ever it’s called). My attitude towards singing is more of a you got it or you don’t kind of thing. It can certainly be tweaked but if your 5’2” taking up basketball is probably not a good idea.
I still love guitar but have kinda realize that my playing is probably limited to a life in my little recording studio in my basement by myself. After nearly 3 years of not a single compliment on my vocals has me finally admitting to myself I just don’t have what it takes. I still love to play but it’s not the social activity I hoped it would be. More of a lone pursuit for me now.
I agree with the advice that putting some emotion into your singing is a good idea. It can help even the most challenged of us.
Mike
Don’t give up on singing or guitar playing or letting some of your work escape the studio.
Your rendition of ‘As Tears Go By’ shows potential.
How can you perhaps improve and boost your confidence? I don’t know the studio set up you have however there are a couple of things you could try even on a fairly simple set up.
Practise the guitar accompaniment, not singing, and perhaps drop the speed to c. 80%. When you’re satisfied with the play-through, record the guitar part. Use that guitar track as the backing track over which you practise singing the lyric: when you’re confident with the singing record your vocal over the guitar part. Listen and re-listen to the finished recording. When you feel a little more confident try playing and singing at the same time, again starting slowly, until you can deliver a version you’re happy with.
Good luck and keep playing and singing.
Brian
Do you like to sing? does it make you escape to a little place outside reality? Does it feel like expressing or venting energy?
Then I see no reason to stop singing
You’ve got to make sure you’re singing in a range that suits you
stading up while singing is the BEST tip I can give you right out of the box
your rhythm needs to be solid
Try singing over your own recordings to separate the playing and singing part.
You can listen to your singing afterwards as well. btw; while I did receive some compliments on my voice last Friday, I could have recorded it and cringed while hearing only my mistakes.
It never truly fades
I’ve got a feeling I’m on my plateau when it comes to range, power, subtlety. but i feel like there is much I can do with what I “have”. It took me a while to grow though and I agree it can be disheartening and frustrating but it you are open to feedback and willing to learn; I’m sure there still is margin!
It’s is a bit of duality:
singing is opening up and taking up a vulnerable postion…while doing it with confidence.
It’s is hard to teach you without being in a (online) sesison with you.
Though, there are a ton of technical tips you can look up and might have missed along the way.
I’m not to keen on overpromoting my private sessions but if you feel like you’re running out of options, you can always consider booking a one-off session. I’ll give you a 50% reduction just because I would find it a waste that you would give up on singing
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Hey Mike, I don’t sing well either, so take what I write with a grain of salt. I’ve been working through Justin’s Ear Training course. A big goal of that is to learn to hear and identify the intervals between notes. Part of the training includes playing a note, trying to sing the note at the interval you’re working on, then playing the note. Holy moly - I can do that. Crazy!
From there, I realized that our “voice” includes a set of muscles. Muscles can be trained. Hmm…. So I keep working on this. I still don’t sing entire songs (unless I’m alone) but have found that I CAN hit three or four notes in a row. I’ve even begun singing a small phrase when describing a song to another person. My range is still only about an octave (which is part of the reason I don’t sing entire songs) but hey - it’s better than nothing! I’ll keep working on it. I’ll never be a pro, but I think I’ll become good enough. Maybe some ear trining could help you out too?
BTW - Spud Webb wasn’t 5’2”, but he was only 5’6” and played in the NBA for over 10 years. I think he even won a slam-dunk contest. 
@beejay56 @LievenDV - My setup is a Focusrite Clarette AI with 2 channels. I use a portable sound hole guitar pickup in one channel and a SM 58 mic for vocals. So, yes, I can get two tracks then create a new track with just vocals. I haven’t done this too often but I have tried it. Thanks for the advice, I’ll keep at it. I thought I was unique in this effort but both of you suggested it so I’m thinking it might a fairly common practice.
Yes, I do like to sing and play. In fact I enjoy it immensely.
I probably should have said this in the op. It’s what I consider my biggest handicap to improving. I have to be careful how I articulate this because it may at first sound like I am in defiance and I certainly am not. The statistics don’t lie. After my songs at this point being heard by perhaps 100-200 people, between family friends , folks here and a couple of other places, never receiving a compliment on my vocals says all there is to say. However, my biggest problem is that I simply don’t hear what other hear when I listen to my own voice. I’m convinced there is some dynamic in our hearing/brain system that masks (or filters) the sound in our own ears such that we do not hear what others hear (recordings I mean). At least for some of us. Maybe it even goes both ways. A good singer may not be able to hear their respective qualities as the bad singer may not be able to hear their negative qualities.
My sister (who knows how I feel about my singing) got me a nice present of a free lesson with her singing coach. I went to him but he wasn’t willing to listen to any of my songs and give me an assessment. I fully understand, he’s the expert and wants to do things his way. He instead wanted me to go thru a series of what appeared to me to some pretty bizarre exercises. I was hoping to get a truly impartial honest assessment (my skin is very thick now). Tell me where my strengths are (if there are any) and more importantly where my faults are and perhaps some pointers on how to improve. He was unwilling to go that route…again I understand.
@LievenDV “I’m not to keen on overpromoting my private sessions but if you feel like you’re running out of options, you can always consider booking a one-off session. I’ll give you a 50% reduction just because I would find it a waste that you would give up on singing” Perhaps I’ll take you up on this, I greatly appreciate the offer. I currently have about 10-12 songs on SoundCloud in my account. I could point you to my account and we could take it from there.
@judi Thank you Judi for your advice as well I greatly appreciate it. I loved Spud Webb, he was a force of nature for sure!! I probably should have gone with my other analogy which would have been…maybe Shaq O’Neil should not take up being a jockey…lol. Might have been a better fit.
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I love the mental image of Shaq as a jockey! Brilliant example.
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You don’t have to sing to play guitar – lots of guitar players don’t sing at all.
Sure!
I usually encourage people to both record something and try something live.
A recording is a representation of the potential “on a good day” (-> you have the chance to select a take that you like). The live one has the extra nervous effect and can count as a “bad day”. Usually the actual level will be somewhere in between 
My approach would be:
- listen to your short and long term goals, how you are getting there,
- check your recordings and ask you some questions I have about those.
- provide feedback on what I hear (and if video’s, what I see),
- check which coaching you already got in terms of technique/posture etc
- go over some things you can try next and read up on. (technique, posture, other songs or other keys).
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Thanks. Appreciate the feedback. Other than classical guitar (which I don’t have enough years left to climb the learning curve) what might be an example of where a solo guitar player might choose to “play” without singing? I can see playing rhythm guitar and leaving the singing to others but what about the solo player? Unless you mean playing with backing tracks?
This topic has come up a few times before and I’ve tried to give some advice based on my own experiences. Here are two of my posts on the subject:
Have a look (and also at the complete threads) for some ideas.
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