Triads & Soloing & Targeting Chord Tones Part 1 - getting started

I knew I bookmarked this for a reason.

I have been doing a lot with triads recently which led me to to ‘I don’t have all the notes on fretboard memorized”. and I just found this.

I think it was one of those ah ha moments. It had to do with the semitones, knowing were they are in each string. And A little bit octave (patterns?) and the fretboard diagrams. .

We will see if this info sticks. I understand the importance of knowing the notes on fret board. Hope I can retain this info know.

Cheers :disguised_face:

Ps. Awesome backing track links!!

Thanx @Richard_close2u , again.

2 Likes

Thanks for the bump Jason. I meant to come back to this after Richard resurrected it on the new platform but life got in the way as usual. Now its bookmarked for reference. Enjoy. :sunglasses:

3 Likes

This may sound like a really daft question to those that know but why do you need to know this. Hadn’t realised that chords (a group of notes) were related to single notes when playing a solo.

1 Like

@Stuartw Take a basic song with a straightforward progression. That song is in a specific key - let’s use the key of G major for an example. In which case everything will derive from and can be referenced back to the G major scale:
G, A, B, C, D, E, F#
The chords within the song will be chords found within the key.
G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#dim
The notes played by any instrument or any singer will be chosen from some or all of the notes from the G major scale, perhaps spread across more than one octave. The bass may be playing notes way down low. The singer may be playing notes up high. The guitar or keyboard may be playing notes (in the form of chords or perhaps triads or arpeggiated chords) somewhere between.
When it comes time for an instrumental break, if a guitar is going to take a lead solo, the notes of that solo will come from the G major scale also. What if the soloist wants to play something more melodic and musical than just randomly happened upon notes from the scale? Knowledge of chord construction and chord tones is where that musician can find some answers.
Let’s say the progression for the instrumental break is:

| G | D | Em | C | Am | Bm C | D | G |

Break down those chords to their constituent notes (triad form).

G = G, B, D
D = D, F#, A
Em = E, G, B
C = C, E, G
Am = A, C, E
Bm = B, D, F

Each and every note for each and every chord comes from within the G major scale. The progression is in the key of G so that should be no surprise. What options does the soloist have for each chord?

When the G chord is playing the soloist can play G, B and D and it will sound so, so good. Those three notes are chord tones. They are the notes of the triad. Perhaps those notes could be located, identified and played by moving to one of the triad shapes!

When the D chord is playing the soloist can play D, F# and A and it will sound so, so good. Those three notes are chord tones. They are the notes of the triad. Perhaps those notes could be located, identified and played by moving to one of the triad shapes!

When the Em chord is playing the soloist can play E, G and B and it will sound so, so good. Those three notes are chord tones. They are the notes of the triad. Perhaps those notes could be located, identified and played by moving to one of the triad shapes!

I will not copy / paste identical looking paragraphs for the other chords. That should explain sufficiently.

What if the soloists only plays one or more of those chord tones as the chords come along and never strays from those notes for each chord? Well, it may just work and be the most inspired solo ever played. Or, it may sound a little predictable with little tension and release, little in the way of movement and melodic surprise. So the soloist may think of the chord tones as a safe and secure set of notes but know that creative expression and interesting improvisation lies beyond those parameters and involves stretching out to use the chord tones mixed in with other notes from the G major scale.

The triad shapes can give that platform and a sure-fire means of knowing where the chord tones. Visualising the triads within scale patterns allows pushing beyond the obvious and offers a fuller, richer and more satisfying means of playing a lead part over a chord progression.

And, to directly answer your question … if you do not know the chord progression, you do not know which notes of the scale are the chord tones and you cannot improvise a solo as described above. Your solo may sound okay if you play from the G major scale but your chances of it all sounding okay all of the time without hitting any ‘sour’ notes or without it sounding somewhat random and high.

3 Likes

@Richard_close2u Thanks for the explanation which took me quite a while to read and work out what you were saying. To be honest I still don’t get most of it. I guess the problem is I don’t recognise chords as notes e.g G = G, B, D. They are still just a fingers placed in a particular pattern to get the required sound, with chords played in a sequence to get another sound.

Not sure I know what that is. Is there a lesson for this in Grades 1 or 2?

Most of this just goes over my head and I find it confusing. I still don’t understand about keys and why a song is in a particular key and why it matters. May be I missed in in Grades 1 & 2. How do I know what key a song is played in? How do I work this out?

There are terms that you have used (triads, chord tones, etc) that I don’t recognise which probably doesn’t help

I just feel that after 3 years of playing I still know next to nothing & that frustrates me no end!!

2 Likes

@Stuartw , sounds like you might benefit from a music theory course.

4 Likes

You may well be right. Have done modules 1 and 2 some time ago, and passed the test. Have also done module 3 (well watched the videos) but not done the test. May need a refresher on this as I had obviously forgotten all this stuff when replying back to @Richard_close2u There is only so much time I can spend with this during a week and playing is probably a better use. Family (especially family at the moment) and work come before all this :slight_smile:

2 Likes

@Stuartw If this triads business interests you, if you’re doing the do and enjoying the music it is enabling you to make, then don’t get too hung on the why and the understanding just yet. If guitar time is precious, then devote it to playing as opposed to understanding theory.
I know that is a little counter to my usual advice. But if you are delving into this topic but don’t understand the theory I am writing about then that’s cool. You can get to the theory after the fact of learning to use triads.

1 Like

They interest me but not sure, at this point, how to include them in the stuff I am learning at the moment.

It is as always.

2 Likes

Richard @Richard_close2u , sorry only stumbled on this fantastic resource this week and just wanted to say a huge thank you for the time and trouble you have obviously taken. Really enjoying playing (as per your instructions) to the referenced backing tracks.
One question, I have noticed that within the given progression the C Major fret positions on String 1 are repeated for the G Major fret positions on String 2. Is there an explanation for this that I have missed somewhere?
Cheers

2 Likes

I’m not sure I understand your question on first reading Johnny.

1 Like

I think he may wondering about this: if you play the C major scale on the high e string and then you play the G major scale on the B string, you will be playing the same frets.

The reason is because in both cases you are starting from the 3rd note in the scale, the E note for C major and the note B for G major. I’m sure you can provide deeper insight.

2 Likes

Richard @Richard_close2u thank you for coming back so quickly.
Here is clarification of my question/observation

C Major Progression I V VI IV - C G Am F
Root Notes String 1
C (Fret 8) G (Fret 3). A (Fret 5) F (Fret 1)

G Major Progression I V VI IV - G D Em C
Root Notes String 2
G (Fret 8). D (Fret 3) E (Fret 5) C (Fret 1)

John @jjw thank you for your response, I’ll have to sit down and think some more…

2 Likes

I am the same John so after the weekend I will be giving this post a lot off attention

cheers HEC

1 Like

@JohnnyW

Aha - I understand. And you have spotted a pattern that exists for all of these triads.

For any given triad, major or minor, there are only three shapes on any set of three adjacent strings. Moving laterally along the fretboard, these shapes repeat until there are no more frets (going up) or until we reach the nut and open strings (going down).
The spacing between root notes of the shapes is repetitive and predictable. Indeed, the spacing between any selected note on any selected string is repetitive and predictable. We have clear patterns to use.

The triad notes on any given string must follow a pattern of root → 3rd → 5th → root → 3rd etc.

For major triads the 3rd is a major 3rd.
For minor triads the 3rd is a minor 3rd (one semitone less).

Major triads.
The fret distance / interval between root and 3rd is always a major third = 4 semitones = 4 frets.
The fret distance / interval between the 3rd and the 5th is always a minor third = 3 semitones = 3 frets.
The fret distance / interval between the 5th and the next root higher is always a perfect fourth = 5 semitones = 5 frets.
4 + 3 + 5 = 12 = one full octave when the pattern and the triad grip shapes start to repeat.

Minor triads.
The fret distance / interval between root and 3rd is always a minor third = 3 semitones = 3 frets.
The fret distance / interval between the 3rd and the 5th is always a major third = 4 semitones = 4 frets.
The fret distance / interval between the 5th and the next root higher is always a perfect fourth = 5 semitones = 5 frets.
3 + 4 + 5 = 12 = one full octave when the pattern and the triad grip shapes start to repeat.

3 Likes

I don’t want to be that guy, but… :wink:

2 Likes

Doh!!
Thanks for keeping me on track Jeff.

Thirds … fourths … fifths … too many ordinals for my brain to manage today! :astonished:

1 Like

Hec @DeltaTyne , your time will not be wasted. Enjoy.

Cheers John

1 Like

If you’re struggling what hope for the rest of us!!!
Seriously Richard @Richard_close2u thank you again for the explanation, I will spend this weekend with a guitar in my hands and get my head around the “rules” you have explained

Cheers, John

2 Likes

Here’s a little more.

I have used the three major triads in the key of C, on the G, B & E strings, to indicate the fretboard distances between each of the intervals.
To maximise the potential for visuale representation I have used a 24-fret layout.
To reduce clutter and information overload, I have used each triad once only for one interval distance.
The C major triad shows only the Root to major 3rd distance.
The F major triad shows only the major 3rd to 5th distance.
The G major triad shows only the 5th to Root distance.
The D minor triad shows only the Root to minor 3rd distance.
The E minor triad shows only the minor 3rd to 5th distance.
The A minor triad shows only the 5th to Root distance.

Note that 5th to Root is the same for both major and minor triads. It is the Root to ‘3rd’ and ‘3rd’ to 5th distances that are inverse intervals in major and minor triads.

I have used a colour coding scheme to (I hope) add clarity).


C, F, G Triads - interval distances (key)


Dm, Em, Am Triads - interval distances (key)

1 Like