Amp recommendations to cure digital modelling option paralysis

Gear & Tools Talk 🔊 Amplification & Effects
1

My guitar rig for the past couple of years is a line 6 Pod Go and studio monitors or headphones. I only play at home and live in an apartment so I must keep the volume down to reasonable levels. While I’m generally satisfied with this setup, I am also faced with options paralysis with the myriad of choices and settings (and GAS for a new rig :face_with_hand_over_mouth:). I’m looking to get either a solid state or valve amp. Some options I’m considering are:

Solid state:

  1. Orange Crush 35RT (with a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the FX loop to keep the overall volume down).
  2. Hughes&Kettner AmpMan Classic paired with a cab (I presume I don’t need the JHS Black Box in the FX loop, since it has a master volume).

Valve:

  1. Orange Micro Dark Head with a cab and either a Bugera PS1 Attenuator of the JHS Black Box.
  2. Marshall DSL1 Head with a cab
  3. Bugera G5 Infinium Head and cab

I play anything from Hank Marvin clean to Blues/Rock and Metal, but for this rig I’ll be satisfied if it just covers clean and blues/rock only.

My budget is ÂŁ500.

The only non-negotiables I have are:

  1. For solid state I want all analogue, no modelling, no apps.
  2. A headphones output for when I want to play silently.
  3. An FX loop to have the option to use the Pod Go for delay or reverb.

My main question is, will one of the above rigs work reasonably well at reasonable volume level (about that of a TV, I guess)?

My second question is what cab should I get? I know little about cabs and what type of speaker and what speaker size is most suitable for my needs.

I also read in forums that even a 0.1W valve amp can be too loud for an apartment. Does this mean that I should get and attenuator or JHS black box if I select the Bugera or the Marshall which go down to 0.1W?

2

Have you tried a software amp? Sounds like you already have an AI?

I grabbed the NeuralDSP Tone king thing recently and it rocks.

3

No, I haven’t. But don’t software amps have a myriad of options too which I’m trying to avoid?

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4

Ah you dont have to use the options, the tone king is fundamentally one amp with 2 channels

There are some pedals you can throw in if you want but the amp is basically a 1:1 sim of an actual amp (including attenuator etc)

You can muck around with IRs and mics and positions but I have not yet.

They do a couple of week trial on each of their plug ins so theres no risk.

Have a great set of presets for it too, not that you need them but these just hit the spot from this guy

If you are going to be playing away from the PC a lot and need a physical amp etc fair play , but if you have an AI and are playing with headphones most of the time then its worth checking out

5

I’m leaning towards a physical amp so not to have to use the PC, but I suppose it won’t hurt if I play around with a free trial. Thanks for the info!

6

No worries, love valve maps but I am doubting they will work well at home with headphones etc!

7

Too bad the Fender Champion 50XL doesn’t have an FX loop.

8

Try to have a look at the Blackstar HT5R series. It is a 5W tube amp that can be reduced to 0.5 W. Comes with effects loop, line in, USB out, headphone out, and it has both a clean and an overdrive channel.

9

I have the Bugera G5 Head. I’ve had it for several years now.

It’s a decent amp and if you want a valve amp that works at bedroom volumes it’s a good candidate.

It sounds pretty good at TV volumes on 0.1W mode, but can go loud enough to annoy other people in the house on 5W mode.

I would say it’s not really loud enough to gig with.

The headphone out is decent on clean, and passable on the dirt channel.

The reverb is pretty good.

Regarding headphones, I’ve played several valve and solid state analogue amps and, IME, headphone output is not their strength. I cannot think of one I have tried where I’ve not preferred cheap modelling unit over it.

Most of these units come with some sort of speaker cabinet emulated output for recording or headphones, but I think most of them aren’t as good as the digital equivalents, especially those based on IRs.

The G5 sounds good in the room through the cabinet but, like most traditional amps, it’s not super-versatile and I have, over the years, found myself using modelling amps or multi-FX units over it, or with it.

Of course, that simplicity and lack of options may be what you are looking for, and it seems to make a decent pedal platform (although, IMO, that is a sure-fire and expensive route to further option paralysis).

At the moment I mainly have a Boss GT-1 plugged into the FX return, so using the G5 as a power amp and bypassing the preamp.

But I also do a lot of headphones practice and, in that case, I would plug into one of my modelling units as I think they sound better (and, in a lot of cases, are more convenient.

So, at the moment, I don’t use mine that much.

For a cabinet, if you do get a head, the Harley Benton range are good and an absolute steal. I got my 1x12 with a Celestion Vintage 30 and, including shipping, it cost less than buying just the speaker from some outlets.

I have also put my Orange Micro Terror through it on occasion, and it sounds fantastic when cranked.

Cheers,

Keith

10

The new Laney Lionheart Foundry series is all analog, right in the sweet spot price-wise, and they sound really good!

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11

kostas
I play combos, so I may not be any help.

I really like my Supro Blues King 12. It’s obsolete though. Been replaced by the Delta King 12 which ya can still get. Same amp minus a loop that’s on the blues king.

May not meet your needs though as neither have headphone capabilities. But the Blues King 12 does have a loop but I don’t think it works so great so I put 4 effects pedals in the ft. which works just fine (tremolo, delay, overdrive and compressor).

While what I got is a 15w tube amp. It can be played at very low volume. I also don’t live in a apt. but I do have a noise sensitive wife and a small house. I can keep the vol. low enough to not find myself in the dog house regularly…
fwiw, supro also has a delta king 10 which is 5w and a 10’’ speaker.

To me, these supros are small, space saving amps that have a big tone. The one I got sounds real good and I go back and forth playing it vs a '65 princeton reverb reissue which is no slouch either for tones. For small watt tube amps, they sound pretty darn good I think.

The big benefit is, imho, they are what they are. Ya get a eq and vol. and onboard reverb. The supro has the extra benefit of a master vol. which I find most useful.
Plug in and play.

PS, I’d recommend the prri but w/o the master volume, it’s 12w is pretty darn loud (likely not apt. friendly). I find it a bit harder to tame. But the prri onboard reverb and tremolo are to die for. Again, no headphones jack. + the prri is only 2 band eq, however I don’t find that particularly limiting. It’s about as simple of a amp ya can get before ya get to a amp with only a vol. and tone knob. or a vol. knob only.
I’m satisfied with them two amps (both are tube amps). They do what I want w/o endless knob/menu tweeking.

Good luck in your search.

12

Hi there, I am playing only at home and recently started jaming a little with someone as well in an appartement.
For that I have a Supro Delta King 10 (5W) and a Harley Benton (Monoprice) TUBE15 (15W/1W) Amp. Both are tube amps and sound good for me and work well for low volume use.
The Harley Benton is more effortable than the Supro, but still sound very good, features an FX Loop and the possibility to switch between 15W and 1W. So it should be ready for small gigs as well if ncecessary (I have no experience with that).

What might be interessting for your use case as well if you think about Head and Cab combination is the stuff from Positive Grid. They offer a Cab which you can combine with all Amps of their line (even with the Spark Go). I am currently looking into the Spark 2 (just released) as it looks very interessting and has lots of features (including looper & drum machine) and is more portable than the Supro or Harley Benton.

Check out some YT reviews on those amps.

BR

13

Hmm, tough one. I can understand GAS, and I can understand option paralysis.
However, I have to say that I think you’ll be quite disappointed with the tone from those amps you list - compared to the models you already have in your Pod GO. ESPECIALLY if you still want to keep the volume super low.

The thing many people find hard to get used to with modellers is that the sounds is coming through headphones, or studio monitors. That does indeed sounds very different from a real guitar cab, using real 12" guitar speakers… and playing at some volume!

So figure out which part it is you REALLY want to fix:

  1. Is it just GAS? Well, either cave in or fight it :slight_smile:
  2. Is the the lack of volume? Well, sounds like you don’t really have a way to fix that
  3. Is it the option paralysis? Come to grips with the fact that while you HAVE options, you don’t need to USE all of them. It’s perfectly fine to stick with just ONE favorite preset or amp model in your device…

But again - a whisper quiet Marshall DSL1 amp will very likely sound way worse than a JCM800 model in your Helix, with nice effects etc. The Bugera and Micro Dark doesn’t even begin to compare with the “big” heads that you have models for already.

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14

I bought a Laney Cub 10 tube amp used for about $120. Sounds incredible . Will never go back to modelers , sold my fender mustang and line 6 amplifi immediately.

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15

Especially not through headphones.

IMO one would be… misguided to think that an analogue amp would sound better through headphones than a modeller (or even as good as).

Cheers,

Keith

16

Thank you all for your responses.

These look good value for money based on specs, but from the prices I’ve seen online the HT5R MkIII are close to, if not over, my budget. How loud is this at 0.5W? Is it at a level that it can be used not too late at night without headphones?

So, in your experience with the Bugera at the 0.1W setting it is fine to use in an apartment? I’m just asking because I’ve read that even at 0.1W a valve amp can be very loud.

I’ve seen videos of Supro amps they seem good, but I’m pretty sure they go over my budget. It also seems difficult to add an attenuator if necessary. It doesn’t seem that there is an easy access to the speaker connection.

Thanks for the suggestions. I’m based in the UK and I think I’ll have to pay import duties for the Harley Benton 15. As for the Spark 2 it is a modeler that’s why I’m not considering it.

Yes it is… Thanks for your input. I don’t need to have the volume super low unless late at night. Probably best to head to the closest music store and see if I can test some these amps with and without attenuation.

17

Kostas,
If your thinking the supro may fit your need but your budget is 500 pounds. Ya might look at used ones. The new price was steep for me too. But ya could get lucky like I did. I give $400 for the one I got, used.
For that matter, anything ya look at ya might want to look at used. 2 (of 3) of the amps I got were used before I got them. The one I don’t talk about is a peavey red stripe bandit I found for $200 locally.
That bandit is solid state and 80W. So it’s just pretty darn loud. If you turn it up.
Both the bandit and the supro I can play at below tv vol. if I have to. They can be turned down to a point where ya hear your electric guitar strings over the amp. No attenuator needed. Of coarse I like it louder, most folks do, but ya don’t have to twist the vol. control up. Both amps can be tamed using the vol. knob with judgment.
Heck, even the prri can be turned down to that low vol. level. But the prri cost a bunch so from your needs it don’t seem like a contender.
But, with luck, ya may be able to find one of them supros around your budget if ya can find one used.
I get it that used is a risk and perhaps I’ve gotten lucky. But both them amps (blues king 12 and red stripe bandit) have been going on 3 years of near daily use w/o issues. So far…

I’ll throw in another idea. When I got my red stripe bandit, I had the choice of it or a red stripe peavey studio pro. It’s a smaller version of the bandit. Ya might consider one of them too. Ya gotta go used with them red stripe ones though, they are both obsolete, but both generally highly regarded amps that sound good and are most durable. fwiw and imho, the transtube red stripe ones are the ones to get (both were long run amps with various up grades and different trim that are all slightly different, some better than others). Amazingly, they sound really good and do a fair job at emulating a tube amp. Just any 'ol tube amp though, I don’t think peavey was trying to be another amp like modelers do, they just wanted to simulate a tube amp in general using solid state. And imho, they came pretty close. My bandit does in fact act similar to a tube amp even though it’s solid state. I use the clean channel, it has a lead channel too. With the transtube at full on (it’s controllable) plugged into the low gain input, turn it up to three and it starts to go to edge of breakup. The louder ya get, the more it breaks up. Like over driven tubes. Bad part is, 3 is not likely apt. friendly vol. but 1.5 or maybe 2 is… :wink:

My whole point of my comment it. Look at used. I read about many folks getting some stellar deals on used amps. Both the ones I’m describing were about the going price used, not stellar deals imho. But still under your 500 pound limit… :wink:

edit, I revise my comment on the bandit vol. level. About .5 on the vol. control (clean or lead channel master vol, pre vol. at 10 for max overdrive on lead channel. clean channel has no master vol.) is where ya hear the strings of the guitar above the amp. Very apt. level vol. I think.

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18

Same. Which presets do you use on the Tone King ? I always use Easy Blues Lead or Pushed Strat as I did not spend a lot of time exploring.

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The guy from the video I posted has a free preset set I am using mostly but tweak from

Usually start with the JT clean or tweed but creamy and Derek are good

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20

Monoprice Stage Right 15. I’ve got one and I love it. I’d call it “Marshall-sounding”

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=611815&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PMax+|+Marrier+|+ULTRA+HIGH&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&hsa_acc=6614305189&hsa_cam=20629231349&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnMQcTHBKLEYBl16-AMyfOy9WL1zHa7ICIhDQwEFmpOqkDIAPnG1fUUaAgCpEALw_wcB