An amp that checks all the boxes?

[Lefteris]

@CT

A line out to an external speaker cab. Seems like a simple thing.

True. And there are videos on YouTube showing how one can do it on their own as a simple DIY thing.
I’ve bought the only 2 things that are needed for the mod. Now I need a drill… And a speaker cabinet😂
But assuming you have a speaker cabinet you only need 1 switched jack with pcb mounts, speaker cable, a drill and a soldering iron.

[CT]

@Majik

@CT

The reason for me to get a new solid state amp would be for hardware features that I don’t have on my Mustang. Things I care about:

• A line out to an external speaker cab. Seems like a simple thing.

A simple thing it may be, but the Katalyst doesn’t have this. Actually, I can’t think of a combo amp in this class that does have this; the Katana and Mustang ranges don’t have it either.

Yeah, this is what I’m seeing across the board as well. Seems like an easy thing to add and an odd thing to omit. This is a fairly easy mod for any amp, so I’m not going to make this a deal breaker. That said, I may pick up a speaker cab with a vintage 30 instead of a new amp, at least in the interim. This would force me to do the external speaker line out mod to the Mustang. My tube amp already has a speaker out. Speakers play a pretty big role with tone.

[Majik]

@CT

I may pick up a speaker cab with a vintage 30

The Harley Benton G112 Vintage is good value and sounds great. I have one of these that I use with my Bugera G5 mostly.

Cheers,

Keith

[J.W.C]

@Majik

…Boss GT1000 into the power-amp input on a Katana 100 gives great results…

Can confirm this works well (in my case it’s a Katana 100/212, and I go into the Return since I don’t have the power amp in that’s on newer Katanas). The GT-1000 and GT-1000 Core let you configure the device with different output settings optimized for your setup. There’s a Line/Phones setting, a “Recording” setting (which is like Line/Phones but also lets you select the speaker IR), and a whole list of amps. Each amp has one or more configurations depending on how you connect to the amp. Which one you’d select depends on whether you’re plugged into that amp’s guitar input jack or the amp’s return jack (or the “power amp in” on newer Katanas). The listed amps (and their method of connection) include:

• JC-120 (Return or Input)
• Blues Cube Tour410 (Return or Input)
• Blues Cube Artist212 (Return or Input)
• Waza 412 (Return or Input)
• Waza 212 (Return or Input)
• Katana 100/212 MkII (Power amp in)
• Katana 100 MkII (Power amp in)
• Katana 50 MKII (Power amp in)
• Katana 100/212 (Return or Input)
• Katana 100 (Return or Input)
• Katana 50 (Return or Input)
• (Generic) Tube Combo 2x12 (Return or Input)
• (Generic) Tube Combo 1x12 (Return or Input)
• (Generic) Tube Stack 4x12 (Return or Input)
• Nextone Artist (Return)
• Nextone Stage (Return)
• Mustang 212 (Return)
• Hot Rod Deluxe (Return)
• Twin Reverb (Input)
• AC30 (Input)
• JCM2000 4x12 (Return)
• JVM410H 4x12 (Return)
• Rectifier 4x12 (Return)
• TriAmp 4x12 (Return)
• Bass amp with tweeter
• Bass amp with no tweeter

Note that this isn’t a list of amp models in the device, it’s a list of output settings for physical amps that you might connect to (and the method of connection). Amp models are a separate thing.

@Majik

…lack of XLR outputs should really not be an issue.

I agree: nice to have, but certainly not a deal-breaker. I kinda wish the GT-1000 Core had XLR outputs like the full-sized GT-1000, but I understand why it doesn’t given the smaller form factor.

@lankytwang

When I were a lad all we needed was one of them AC 30 thingys…

Heck, yeah; I’ll take one of those thingys!

@CT

Speakers play a pretty big role with tone.

Yeah, huge role. As a side comment for anyone considering a Katana, the upgraded speaker in the 100 is another reason you might choose the 100 over the 50.

[CT]

@Majik

It depends on your use case: if you are performing on large stages or professional studios, and running long cables into a mixer/PA then XLR is important. For most home use, or even rehearsal studio use it really isn’t.

I think if there is a relevant point here it is that, on the Katana, you need to get the 100W version to get the line out capability.

It’s another option, or tool on our tool belt. You can mic an amp or use XLR out, which is best and which is best to use when? It’s an another option, oh yeah, I already said that.

[Majik]

@CT

You can mic an amp or use XLR out

…or use an unbalanced line-out on a TS jack. That’s my point: you just need a line-out. It doesn’t have to be XLR

XLR is the ideal, but in every practical situation you may encounter, the unbalanced output is likely to work just as well.

Cheers,

Keith

[Lefteris]

Another amp that may be ticking all the boxes could be, for me, the Blackstar HT series.
I tried the 5W combo and sounded nice, it has fx loop, usb out (not XLR), speaker out, attenuation… Don’t know about pedal platform but why not?

[CT]

@Majik

@CT

• A better pedal platform.

Better than what you have, I assume you mean. The Katana is renowned for being a great pedal platform.

Yes, but only in a solid state amp. My tube amp is an excellent pedal platform. Lacking an FX loop the K50 would not be a great pedal platform for me.

[Majik]

@CT

Yes, but only in a solid state amp. My tube amp is an excellent pedal platform. Lacking an FX loop the K50 would not be a great pedal platform for me.

Sounds to me like adding a cab to your current tube amp is the way to go.

Cheers,

Keith

[CT]

@Majik

@CT

• A better pedal platform.

Better than what you have, I assume you mean. The Katana is renowned for being a great pedal platform.

Have you tried a mix of internal amp FX and external pedals in combination at the same time? Probably most useful with an FX loop, but still an indication of a good pedal platform on a SS amp. The Mustang does not do this sort of thing very well. Kind of all or nothing with a super clean amp for pedals.

[Majik]

@CT

Have you tried a mix of internal amp FX and external pedals in combination at the same time?

Yes, but not extensively. I’ve mainly experimented with some gain/boost into the front with some onboard modulation and delay. That seems to work fine. The gain seems to work well into either a clean or crunch channel.

Note that the clean channel on the Katana has a decent headroom, but actually does start to break up a bit if you crank the gain control or push it with a drive pedal. This seems to work for either internal drive effects or external pedals and, for a lot of people, using the clean channel with a drive is the preferred way to get an overdriven sound. A lot of Justin’s Katana patches, for instance, are built this way.

I’ve not tried stacking an external and internal drive pedal, but a drive pedal into the crunch channel seems to work just as well as using the internal drive models with it, so I suspect stacking would work too.

Of course, a lot will depend on what you want to do and how you want to mix and match pedals. I think as long as you have a sensible chain (treating the internal effects, including the preamp, as part of that chain) then most normal ways of chaining pedals should work well.

@CT

Probably most useful with an FX loop

IMO the most useful reason to have an FX loop is to use a looper pedal like the Ditto, Trio+, Boss RC, etc. This is even more important on a modelling amp like the Katana because of the built in effects, which you want to come in front of the looper, and the only way to do this is using an FX loop.

On a more conventional amp without onboard FX, you can usually run the looper into the front and put the other FX in front of the looper. That is unless you particularly want to record the sound of the preamp.

Other than that, you don’t need an FX loop. They can sound better for some type of effects, particularly for delays and reverbs and some people like modulation effects in there too. But, on a conventional pedal-board/amp setup it’s optional.

A few years ago I built a pedal board for a gigging friend which optionally supported connecting his delay and modulation pedals into his 100W Marshall’s FX loop, with the other pedals into the front. Here’s the routing for it:

If he wanted to just put everything into the front of the amp, he could put a small link cable in and run a single cable to the amp:

He tried it with the FX loop several times but, ultimately, decided he preferred everything into the front of the amp.

YMMV

Cheers,

Keith

[CT]

Putting a looper in the FX loop can be a good thing or it can be somewhat limiting – what you put in the loop is what you get. I never know how much gain and exactly what tone I want going in with a particular loop. I like to lay down a clean loop in the looper and then add an amp sim/preamp type of pedal after it. In my case that’s usually the Joyo American Sound. Drive pedals in the FX loop can be cool too. That way I can add gain, and other tone/EQ changes to the loop on the fly. Putting an amp sim pedal in the FX loop will also color the overall tone. It’s another tone layer that I’ve come to like.

Plugging direct into the FX loop return opens up cool options as well. The American Sound shines in this scenario.

Mucking around with pedals in the the FX loop can open up some cool “Greenfield” tone tweaking:

That Pedal Show – Using Drive & Preamp Pedals In Your Amp FX Loop

That said, my next move could just as well be a microphone upgrade and/or an external speaker cab.

Don’t sleep on how cool an FX loop can be.

[CT]

I have a speaker switch ready to go for my Mustang. It took me over a year to swap out pickups in my Gretsch, so this mod should be done in three years or so. LOL

[Majik]

@CT

Putting a looper in the FX loop can be a good thing or it can be somewhat limiting – what you put in the loop is what you get.

Well, yes. I think that’s the most common way of using a looper: record the effects, not effect the recording.

@CT

I never know how much gain and exactly what tone I want going in with a particular loop. I like to lay down a clean loop in the looper and then add an amp sim/preamp type of pedal after it.

But then you are stuck with that level of gain (and any effects) for both the loop and anything you lay down on top of it. Which is fine if that’s how you like to do things. But to me that seems limiting.

I would say that most people will want to have different gain settings for the loop versus any noodling they do over the top, which is where I was pitching my statements. In this common case, the looper being after other pedals is the way to achieve that.

And, of course, with a simple amp and external pedals “after other pedals” doesn’t have to be in an FX loop; it could simply be at the end of the chain before it goes into the amp.

Where you DO need an FX Loop for this is where you are using built-in effects of the amp, as the only way to place the looper after these effects is with an FX Loop.

@CT

That way I can add gain, and other tone/EQ changes to the loop on the fly.

Surely you can achieve that by putting your looper and gain pedals all before the amp (in whatever order you want)?

OK, yes I agree you can get a different vibe from connecting drive pedals to an FX loop, and it particularly suits “preamp” type pedals, one of the more famous ones being the Boss Metal Zone, which is famous for tending to work better connected to the loop than in the front.

Note I said “to” and not “in”.

in the video you posted (and in general) the point of using such pedals is to bypass the pre-amp stage of the amp. So you wouldn’t normally connect the pedal in the loop as you would with, say, a delay pedal; you would normally connect these pedals just into the FX return. Effectively you are using the FX Return as a “power amp in” feed.

If you watch from 33:43 you’ll see them trying normal gain pedals.

Of course, if you like to wire gain pedals fully into the loop, that’s up to you, especially if you like the results. I’m just pointing out that it’s not what most people do, and my feeling is, they don’t do this because they don’t like the results.

YMMV. There are no rules.

Cheers,

Keith

[CT]

@Majik

But then you are stuck with that level of gain (and any effects) for both the loop and anything you lay down on top of it. Which is fine if that’s how you like to do things. But to me that seems limiting.

Limiting in either case may not be the best of terms. There is flexibility in the FX loop or in the front end of the amp. With an FX loop and various pedals you can really change the sound of the amp by bypassing its built in preamp. I think we agree more than disagree, and most of it boils down to personal preference. An FX loop is a must have for me either way.

I think a lot of people don’t use the FX loop with a preamp or amp sim type of pedal because they just haven’t really toyed with it that much. We all start to fall into patterns at times.

So I’ve got a bunch or options here to explore that don’t include getting another amp, and in that regard I’m calling off the dogs. Better to ponder a new mic, external speaker cab and/or a really cool preamp pedal (maybe all three).

[Majik]

@CT

So I’ve got a bunch or options here to explore that don’t include getting another amp, and in that regard I’m calling off the dogs. Better to ponder a new mic, external speaker cab and/or a really cool preamp pedal (maybe all three).

Cool beans. There’s lots to play with there. Have fun!

Cheers,

Keith

[J.W.C]

@CT

…a really cool preamp pedal…

Check out the Chase Bliss Automatone. Pricey, but man, it’s impressive.

Preamp Mkii Overview (Deep Dive)

[CT]

I will most likely pick up a high-value proposition.

[J.W.C]

Yeah, I hear you. I’m still tempted by that one, though. The combination of being able to save presets (and control it all with MIDI if you want), plus the awesome flexibility (pre/post parametric mids, adjust the “Q” for mids, different diodes, a fuzz circuit that can be open or gated, and ability to hook it up to an expression pedal) gives you an awful lot of options and value in a single (digitally controlled but analog) pedal with a “natural” user interface. Honestly, if it were just a little cheaper I’d probably spring for it. But I’m still learning the ins and outs of my latest purchase (the GT-1000Core) and can’t justify it right now.

[CT]

Definitely a cool rig. I would probably go with something like the Flamma FS06 (horrible name).