I FEEL music, oh yes, and I would love, if it was that easy. But e.g. a scale has to be learnt first, with pracitice and muscle memory you get there over time to play it automatically. Then, you don’t even think about it anymore.
Sorry Rogier, wasn’t my intention to give you additional food for thoughts . Just ignore my silly comments !
I never would, and I would be bad then too… Hey, you know exactly what I mean, don’t you ?
That’s more of a point, teachers tought us visualisation as a good method for learning…
You’ve got the point where I’m coming from! And you have to be aware of what works and doesn’t work for you.
I went sucessfully through university and through my life, I guess I simply have adjusted my way to adapt things unconciously in a way that works for me.
Yes I am happy. I think this is all fascinating, I had no thought of where it may go. I was just amazed Justin mentioned that he was an aphant, and then 3 others in the chat also said they were the same.
There’s more of us around that I thought.
If anyone has good learning techniques that work for them, I will gladly try them. As someone said it is translating the concepts to the physical actions on the fretboard that are important.
I’m a long long way away from the fretboard lighting up. I guess you’re right though, I’m sure much more advanced players will see it that way.
For me at the moment it’s the visualisation (without guitar) that takes me to the right notes when I play it on guitar. I wouldn’t call that as the fretboard lighting up but maybe that’s what it will lead to…eventually…hopefully!
I was reading this thread with interest as I’d never heard of Aphantasia before and knew nothing about it. I definitely don’t have it. Seeing as you asked Andrea - I have no idea how it compares to others but I can definitely visualise and I used to read lots of fiction books when younger.
Back in high school we did a VAK test, to figure out if you were primarily a visual, audio, or kinesthetic (movement) learner. I was high in V & K and low in A. Even though I think VAK is classed as pseudoscience these days, it lines up with how I am - quite good with reading/visualising, good with rhythm & movement, weaker with melody, pitch and spoken instructions. But I’m working on the audio side.
I agree it’s absolutely fascinating. Thank you for starting this thread, Phil. At least for me it’s surely one of the most fascinating threads in the forum.
I think, the more we are aware of how we are learning as individuals, the easier learning can become. It’s also great to understand better how others are learning, since this will help giving better feedback on AVOYPs etc. There are so many things I take for granted, and this thread reminded me how important it is to question my own bias.
I read the thread during various times of the day and I must have missed a lot. Still the thread made me question what the situation looks like in my case and how I could build on my skills (or are they such even? never thought about it, always thought that I’m simply a bit weird) to improve my learning.
I guess, I’m quite much at the opposite end of the spectrum. There are certain names e.g. immediately translate to colours and /or taste. The name “Peter” for example in my brain immediately translates to the colour and taste of dried peas. “Kristian” is a light lemony yellow and associated with pleasant fresh (not sour) lemony taste. “Maarit” is a calm, dark, beautiful blue. “Aino” a dark, saturated red with blue undertones. Then there are certain words and numbers that are simply unsympathetic.“Äijä” is such a case. It’s a perfectly fine Finnish word… one good possible translation to English is maybe “guy”. In my mind, the word is vomit green and has an associated taste. If something is tasty, Finns tend to say “nam nam”. Seeing it written alone drives me crazy, because I have the immediate association of someone munching on chips resp. crisps. The numbers 4 and 7 are simply unsympathetic for me, because they are loud and associated with screaming brownish orange and and screaming redish purple respectively.
In quiet moments I noticed that - to some extent - I have the same with sounds of guitar chords. I’m not passionate about the sound of E for example… it’s neutral, a light gray. In contrast Em sounds like a dark blue-green forest green. The progression from G to Em feels like being outside on a cold winter night and smelling the distant smell of wood burning in a fire place… it’s beautiful. D7 sparkles and is associated to ember. The progression from D7 to G sounds like a fire that has just been started in a fire place (D7) and closing the door of the fire place then (G).
@BurnsRhythm You mentioned how useful visualisation techniques have been for you? Do you use visualisation to recall scale patterns only? Or do you use visualisation also for learning lyrics? I experimented with that first time yesterday and it’s fascinating how well it works…
@philsmith I saw you mentioning that you have an almost “photographic memory” for what has been said. Do you exploit this skill for learning lyrics?
@roger_holland Have you tried associating tones resp. sounds of notes and chords with colours? Maybe that could help when something is not working as well as you want when you are starting to practice something new?
@JokuMuu Nicole, I believe what you’re describing is called synesthesia. This has always fascinated me…and I confess I’ve secretly wised I had this! Thank you for sharing your examples.
Yes, I know that something like that exists. But it’s just completely random in my case. I guess in the synesthesia spectrum I would be on the very, very low end of the spectrum
@jkahn Thanks for answering and intersting to read that obviously you are a “visual” guy.
Me neither! I first thought, it might be one of those things, maybe bumped up by social media (my future daughter-in-law told me, that a video on this subject went viral on tik tok lately) and was quite surprised to maybe fall, at least partially, into that spectrum. I mean, I knew that people were grouped in different types of learning styles, those who pick up information more visually or via audio or reading or whatever.
The point, that was completely astonishing for me, was the seeing aspect. I don’t lack of phantasy itself, never had issues with reading, quite the contrary, I don’t have any problems to read graphic representation, it’s just that I don’t SEE things in my mind and I maybe can’t remember as much detail out of my visual input compared to my husband.
I unconciously realized, since I started to play guitar, that e.g. can’t see the fretboard as a “picture” to visualize and memorize it and I have a real hard time to “translate” grips I see in the videos into my own usage, especially as the imgage is vice versa. Over the months, I developed a reliable feeling for the chord grips and some kind of feeling for the distances. What I simply can’t recap visually in my mind is, as well as Rogier, when lying in bed e.g. a difficult chord change or a transition in a riff I struggle with.
Also a chord diagramm doesn’t translate into a visual handshape for me. I need to form the handshape a few times, then my brain saves it, but not as a picture, but I can recall it as a hand posture or certain movement.
I’ll stop here… but it’s absolutely fascinating what different approaches we have to take to get better on this “damed ” instrument!
All our brains store visual memories.
Think of it: If we didn’t have the visual memory already in our brain, every time you saw your partner, dog, house etc. it would be like seeing a stranger for the first time (This does exist)
What you’re talking about here is the extent we can recall them (on demand). For some it’s natural, for some nigh impossible. Many of us can train our brains to get better at certain activities (including visualization) with focused practice.
@JokuMuu Nicole, it’s fascinating to read about your association of objects or sounds with colour and aroma. I’ve heard about that ability before but it doesn’t resonate with me at all.
My visualisation is about everything learning guitar, not just scale patterns.
I’m not a singer so learning lyrics isn’t top of my list. The melody of the lyrics is important though.
Good point Brian @brianlarsen , I’ve been wondering if some peoples visualisation could be improved with practice, although I have no idea how someone with Aphantasia would get started with it.
This is fascinating. I had heard somewhere that we (generally, I guess) cannot imagine smells, like we can with sights or sounds. I know what bacon smells like, and if I try to imagine it, I can see the bacon in the pan and I can hear it crackling, but I can’t smell it in my mind.
Certainly associating colours and sounds with smells is the hardest to wrap my head around. I can at least imagine what it must be like to have a clear picture in your mind even I don’t really experience that. I guess anyone that has it strongly must have some really awkward moments in life when they are repulsed by something and no one else understands what is going on!
As someone who rarely sees images it is an interesting question wondering if with practice it’s a trainable skill or if in reality we’re better off accepting it and learning via different methods. It possibly depends whether it’s something hardwired in the brain or not as to how “fixable” it is.
Hi Nicole,
Errr , I don’t see how that could help me…and as mentioned earlier, I have no problem with this and am therefore not looking for new ways of learning… I had already found solutions for it , although I don’t think I can (I think) explain it properly …
and @Helen0609 The funny thing remains that Justin, who only recently knew it himself and I only knew it because of the conversation I had with him in his lessons, says imagine in your head on the train or before going to sleep your fretboard of your favorite guitar for … and the fact that I didn’t succeed made me a bit unsure whether I would learn it about 3 and a half years ago … so I now realize that I am actually very happy that I did this Now I know… the man who gave me that insecure feeling has fortunately also solved it (without knowing)…
Edit: the errr is because I often mix up the names of colors when I see them and have to say them (this is the simple abbreviated explanation)
See… That’s something I must have missed…didn’t have time for reading everything as attentively as I should have
True… I was wondering about something similar a lot yesterday… thinking how I could consciously learn to use associations of sound, colour,
or images for improving my guitar playing and learning new techniques. I guess, some things can be improved with hard work, discipline and dedication. It’s a matter of trial and error, limited by how much something is “fixable” as you say.
The only thing I mean besides a good laugh at/with @adi_mrok… is that the idea of colors is being tried out… maybe it will be of some use to you… in any case it made me very happy again.
Greetings
we re all built differently
there are different types of memory and we’re not all using the same memory
some people use the photographic memory , others , the " ear " memory , others will be smells and the re must be a memory linked to the touch too etc etc
what works for some people might not work for others because we do not use the same memory !
someone with an " ear " memory or photographic memory shouldn t try to use the " color " technic because their brain won t understand it
This thread has really caught my attention. So most people can actually see objects or events in their minds, even with their eyes closed or open?! I had no clue that was possible. I’ve never heard of it. I evidently have Aphantasia then, since I don’t see things like that.
Only, as I have aged, some nights, between being asleep and awake, I see what I first thought were spiders in my bed. Or I see large, dark, floating
blobs. But that’s different. I can’t see visuals in my mind. I do dream and can recall some of what I saw in the dreams. I can imagine. I can follow the story in a book and imagine the story, but I can’t see it. I guess that’s why I love movies. The visual is right there.
I’ve always wondered why some people can memorize and retain so much and so easily where I can’t. Is it because they can see it in their minds? Probably not. I know Justin has good memory skills.
But either way, I’m still plugging along with my guitar. Slowly but surely.
. Just ignore my silly comments 
?
… and I like them 
… when I was 45/46 years old 
” instrument!
, I don’t see how that could help me…and as mentioned earlier, I have no problem with this and am therefore not looking for new ways of learning… I had already found solutions for it 
