Behringer 204HD help

[Stuartw]

If you have been following my antics with AI you will know that I have bought a Behringer UMC204HD (with the intention of recording as the JG lessons suggest that this is a good thing!) but am having ongoing issues with it. I have set this up - Guitar > Boss DS-1 > amp > 204HD. Headphones are plugged into the 204. Also have the AI connected to an JVC amp & speakers. The problems are:

1. I can’t get the volume right to be able to record anything. The amp volume is set to approx. 3 (this is what I normally have it set to) and the guitar at mid way. This produces barely a ripple in Audacity which means little to hear on playback.
2. When not playing the green ‘sig’ light is always on to the 204, with a constant hum. Previously this was feedback from the guitar but isn’t now as I have checked by moving the guitar away from the amp.
   
3. If I have the JVC amp & speakers active plugging the headphones into the 204 doesn’t stop the sound from the speakers. I thought that it would!

I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth the hassle and revert back to everything plugged into the amp, but willing to carry on at this point. I’m guessing that there must be a fairly simple solution to this so any help would be appreciated.

[TheCluelessLuthier]

The first idea I have is to check where the cable from the amp to the computer is running. I have rerouted mine to avoid it running next to other wires, especially power. I did the same with my speaker wire.

[Stuartw]

@Stuartw

The amp volume is set to approx. 3 (this is what I normally have it set to) and the guitar at mid way. This produces barely a ripple in Audacity which means little to hear on playback.

I will add that the ‘gain’ knob on the 204 is at the 9 o’clock, but the sound is showing as clipped by the red light flashing.

[Stuartw]

@TheCluelessLuthier

The first idea I have is to check where the cable from the amp to the computer is running. I have rerouted mine to avoid it running next to other wires, especially power. I did the same with my speaker wire.

The usb cable runs from 204 to my pc as it did before and is above all power cables as far as I can see. I’ve not changed this. I’m totally lost with this as no idea what is going on.

[Majik]

What guitar is it? Do you still get the hum when you turn the volume control on the guitar down?

Not sure about the input level. If the AI is showing the volume as clipping (which you really don’t want) then you should get a decent input on Audacity.

Did you try the Behringer drivers?

There may be some OS control that’s limiting the input level of the AI in software. Try checking the mixer (usually a speaker symbol in the bottom of the screen) or try opening up the control panel and find the audio settings and see if there’s anything there.

Cheers,

Keith

[Majik]

Also: Is Your Audacity Recording Too Quiet? | Home Brew Audio

Cheers,

Keith

[Stuartw]

@Majik

What guitar is it? Do you still get the hum when you turn the volume control on the guitar down?

It’s a Yamaha Pacifica, and yes the hum is still there even with the guitar volume on 0.

@Majik

Did you try the Behringer drivers?

I did and now have a load more different devices showing for in and out and no idea what the difference is bewteen them. Google doesn’t seem to offer much help.

[Stuartw]

@Majik

Also: Is Your Audacity Recording Too Quiet? | Home Brew Audio

Thanks for the link and that works OK, with recording in stereo and them converting to mono. Still have to turn the headphones up a lot to hear what was recorded. Was expecting them to be the same. That is what I hear when playing is exactly the same volume as what I hear on playback .

[Majik]

The general trick with Audacity, in particular, seems to be to use Amplify or Normalize to boost the recording.

@Stuartw

Was expecting them to be the same.

Unfortunately, it’s not as straightforward as that.

Cheers,

Keith

[jkahn]

There are so many possible ways to configure this stuff, here’s some random pointers that might help. Volume problems like this are probably to do with your setup having a point where the input/output is too low.

• Your guitar amp, not sure what type this is as you don’t mention it - are you using the XLR out from it to go into your AI? If you’re using headphones out, the output may be too low.
• Make sure you’re using the ASIO audio device from the AI’s drivers in your DAW (Audacity)
• Take the DAW out of the loop while testing this and use the AI’s “monitor” function to go straight from AI input to your speakers/headphones
• Crank your AI’s gain up as high as it will go without it clipping when you’re playing
• You might need to adjust amp volume - a good modern modelling amp will output to an AI at full volume while silent or quiet, but not all amps will

The constant input is probably dirty power or induction in unshielded cables like @TheCluelessLuthier says. If it happens while your amp/guitar cable isn’t plugged into the AI, it’s probably dirty power. Make sure you’ve got no cable loops (e…g having the same JVC amp & speakers connected to your PC and the AI would be a loop).

[Stuartw]

Thanks for you help with this. @jkahn

@jkahn

There are so many possible ways to configure this stuff

As I’m beginning to understand!

@jkahn

Your guitar amp, not sure what type this is as you don’t mention it - are you using the XLR out from it to go into your AI? If you’re using headphones out, the output may be too low.

It’s a Roland Cube 20X with the output from the ‘Recording Out/phones’ socket.

@jkahn

Make sure you’re using the ASIO audio device from the AI’s drivers in your DAW (Audacity)

I think I am but not sure how to check. This is what I have in Audacity.

and the UMC Control Panel which shows ASIO not active. How to I activate this?

@jkahn

Take the DAW out of the loop while testing this and use the AI’s “monitor” function to go straight from AI input to your speakers/headphones

Unfortunately I’ve no idea where that is in the UMC Control Panel app.

@jkahn

You might need to adjust amp volume - a good modern modelling amp will output to an AI at full volume while silent or quiet, but not all amps will

I daren’t do that as it will blow my ears. The headphones level in the 204 is only about 9 o’ clock which is well loud enough. What do you mean by “while silent or quiet”?

@jkahn

If it happens while your amp/guitar cable isn’t plugged into the AI, it’s probably dirty power.

It doesn’t. Only when the amp is on.

@jkahn

Make sure you’ve got no cable loops (e…g having the same JVC amp & speakers connected to your PC and the AI would be a loop).

I have the JVC amp connected to the 204 only. Sound from the pc goes via the 204>JVC amp>speakers.

[Socio]

Just a quick google and there are lots of pages on similar issues. Likewise quite a few topic on this forum on the same matter froma variety of users. Not sure if any of them got resolved. I’m wondering if you’d be better off with a DAW like reaper (or similar - I’m sure @Majik knows a few decent free ones)?

[Majik]

This sort of quirk is why I tend to not recommend Audacity. On the other hand, Audacity (even with the quirks) can be easier to get to grips with for simple recording purposes.

Almost all proper DAWs have a considerable learning curve as they are designed for professionals (or experienced amateurs) who tend to have complex requirements which include MIDI capture and editing, transposing, bussing, sidechaining and other complex plugin configurations, automation capture and editing, overdubbing, etc.

They are also designed to be able to do these things quickly, easily, and efficiently, and that often is not compatible with “intuitivity” (whatever that means). Certainly, what many people perceive to be “intuitive” is a long way from being “easy to use” once you know the tool well.

If you are going to try a DAW then you really must RTFM (or the modern equivalent: watch a tutorial on Youtube).

Audacity cannot do some of the things I briefly listed above, and some it can do but (IME) does rather poorly. But it’s not a DAW and, for it’s purpose of simple recording, editing and mixing, it does work.

I’m reluctant to suggest a full DAW in this case because I suspect the OP may struggle with that learning curve. The “quickstart” for most DAWs is a 30min+ video, and most DAWs have many hours of tutorials dedicated to helping you learn them.

Of course, if @Stuartw is up for this, My personal favourite is Ardour which is, technically, free of charge but, in reality isn’t completely for most people. It is, however, very inexpensive to acquire: you can get the installer for a donation starting at $1 per month (with no obligation after the first payment), or a one off donation payment of “what you can afford”. A payment of $45 gives you the full current version plus access to free upgrades within this version.

There is, also, an interesting offer on Mixbus 10 which I also enjoy, largely because it’s based on Ardour, and purchasing it goes towards supporting Ardour. At the moment you can get it for $29.99, which is about £23.

Cheers,

Keith

[jkahn]

@Stuartw

It’s a Roland Cube 20X with the output from the ‘Recording Out/phones’ socket.

@Stuartw

@jkahn

You might need to adjust amp volume - a good modern modelling amp will output to an AI at full volume while silent or quiet, but not all amps will

I daren’t do that as it will blow my ears. The headphones level in the 204 is only about 9 o’ clock which is well loud enough. What do you mean by “while silent or quiet”?

I had a quick look at the Roland Cube 20X manual. When something is plugged into the Recording Out/Phones socket, it silences the amp speaker. That’s what I mean by the amp being silent or quiet.

You probably just need to crank the volume on the amp while it is connected to your AI.

[Majik]

I’m not sure the amp needs cranking too much…

@Stuartw

I will add that the ‘gain’ knob on the 204 is at the 9 o’clock, but the sound is showing as clipped by the red light flashing.

Cheers,

Keith

[Majik]

@Stuartw

and the UMC Control Panel which shows ASIO not active. How to I activate this?

Apparently, Audacity does not support ASIO drivers:

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/asio_audio_interface.html

The ASIO technology was developed by German company Steinberg and is protected by a licensing agreement which prevents redistribution of its source code.

Audacity, as an open source program licensed under the GPL, is therefore currently unable to support ASIO, despite being ASIO-capable (providing the user’s sound device is similarly capable). If ASIO support were distributed in Audacity builds this would either violate Steinberg’s licence agreement if the code were included, or conversely would violate Audacity’s GPL Licence if the code were withheld.

Cheers,

Keith

[Stuartw]

@Majik

Audacity cannot do some of the things I briefly listed above, and some it can do but (IME) does rather poorly. But it’s not a DAW and, for it’s purpose of simple recording, editing and mixing, it does work

It would work for me if I can iron out the hum issue. The volume bit I’m sure I can sort based on previous comments.

@Majik

I’m reluctant to suggest a full DAW in this case because I suspect the OP may struggle with that learning curve.

You may well be right!

@Majik

Of course, if @Stuartw is up for this, My personal favourite is Ardour which is, technically, free of charge but, in reality isn’t completely for most people.

I’m always up for a challenge so will check this out.

[Stuartw]

@Majik

Apparently, Audacity does not support ASIO drivers:

Found that out the other day!

[Socio]

@Majik

I’m reluctant to suggest a full DAW in this case because I suspect the OP may struggle with that learning curve.

I suppose but worth noting a lot more user support on the forum and I guess just the basic understanding would be needed for adding tracks and recording.

[Stuartw]

@TheCluelessLuthier

The first idea I have is to check where the cable from the amp to the computer is running. I have rerouted mine to avoid it running next to other wires, especially power. I did the same with my speaker wire.

Just following this one up as I’m still getting the background hum & not sure what to do. The hum is only present when the amp is on so guessing it’s a problem with the amp or power to the amp. The usb cable from the amp to the computer is running at desk level well above the power for the amp. The amp power cable on a extension lead at floor level with the power to the pc direct into a socket in the wall.

I have tested move power cables about and changing sockets but the hum is still there!