In tuning, I’ve noticed a few things and I wondered if someone could explain:
The lower strings usually go out of tune over night, while, most, of the higher strings don’t.
What’s up with that? (thanks SNL)
The B string is more difficult to tune
I have two guitars (one 90 and one 1 year old), and the B string takes me longer to tune than the D and E strings other side. Coincidence?
I’ve an electronic tuner “unitune”, and it indicates that the tone changes, ever so slightly, sometimes oscillating, as it, the note, slowly decays, even when I damp down all the other strings.
Wow well firstly it’s great to meet you BC, i am from the UK and the weather is normally fair to my guitars but it does sound like you have a lot going on, And i am unsure what 90 and 1 year mean but my guess it will have something to do with humidity until i can understand what type of guitars they are and how they are stored etc cheers HEC
Every note you play on an organic instrument has overtones. Our ears hear the fundamental frequencies (i.e. “the” note we want to play), but the overtones are there. As the note decays, the “quantity” of the various overtones changes, with the highest frequencies disappearing sooner.
Also, clip-on tuners work by sensing the vibrations of the instrument’s body and pedal tuners rely on the electric signal created by the strings in the electromagnetic field of the coils in the pickups. Neither of them are in direct contact with the strings themselves, so they show only an approximation, however close that might be to an ideal frequency. That’s part of the reason why seasoned pro musicians tune by ear rather than rely 100% on tuners.
As usual I have no answers…I can say that it seems the wound strings go out of tune more than the unwound strings, regardless of the guitar. My physicist husband offers a possible explanation. Strings go “out of tune” when the tension changes. The thinner (higher) strings are under more tension than lower (thicker) strings. Assume we’re talking environmental changes, and assume that the environmental change impacts tension on all strings equally. Then the ratio of the change in tension relative to the existing tension on smaller strings will be smaller than on bigger strings. So, the bigger strings go (more obviously) out of tune sooner.
I have a slightly different experience with the most stubborn string to tune. I usually fiddle with G the most.
I seem to recall that this is related to G being the thickest string… get rid of all of the winding on the lowest three strings and the string that is left is not as thick as the G. I can’t remember why this makes it (generally) the least stable!
Hmm…good point, which made me wonder if I have this issue mostly on my acoustics (wound G string) or electric (unwound). I’m not sure! I also wonder if Bruce @mundeli is talking acoustic or electric…or both…
The temperature change (and perhaps humidity change, depending on where you live) overnight affects the guitar’s wooden neck more than the metal strings. The strings have different tension, and some are more likely to snag in the nut than others.
Yes, all the things you have said are true and happen to, probably, everyone’s guitars unless they are in a very uniform and controlled climate. They also need to be adequately “broken in” and no longer stretching or stabilizing, nor worn out.
My basement “guitar cave” often remains at the same temperature and humidity for days to weeks at a time. A lovely place for guitars! Even the nylon string guitars will stay in tune when the strings are in the sweet spot of their life span. Until they aren’t.
I recommend not worrying about it and tune your guitar every time you play it anyway. You are allowed to swear when tuning the B string. There is no way out of that.
I hadn’t thought too deeply on this either. Makes sense.
I also feel that the real variable in my house is the humidity. Temperature swings only a few degrees around say 70F, but humidity can vary by 10-15% around 35%.
Missing Background
The two guitars are both acoustic: the 90year old is an arch top (with chrome flat wound strings) and the 1year old is a new Yamaha (with phosphor bronze strings).
Live in coastal Maine, USA and the humidity in the house presently a 60%+, with temps in the room swinging between 55F and 65F night to day.
@jozsef Hadn’t thought about the decay of the overtones relative to frequency. That makes sense (much easier to attenuate a shorter wave form). This is perfectly consonant with my limited physics background (pun intended, of course)
I had thought of strings as their O.D. (outside diameter), not the I.D. as being a most critical factor–nor had a thought of the relative tension. @judi–your husband’s hypothesis I like, and I would think that would think that we have to factor in elasticity of the strings as well.
No one mentioned the machines–so I think they may be outside of the discussion (though the 90 years are mighty cranky/clunky)
My synthesis of the responses
These are some of the contributing factors
Humidity changes
Temperature changes
Inner String Diameter vs O.D.
Tension deltas. Lower = less tension
Thermal expansion coefficient of metals versus that of wood
Humidity effects on wood (and tangential versus radial differences is there too)
Quicker decay of shorter wave forms
Brain “choosing” what to hear (it likes pattern recognition)
Electronic tuners “choosing” differently
And too, I think, the tuner is challenged by displaying a multiplicity of frequencies in a small message space (the display to our eyes).
I’ve had to adjust truss rods on my acoustic usually twice a year every year due to movement. Once as it starts to get warmer and then the other way as it starts to get colder and (more I think) humid in the house.
I always think as the E & A strings are the strongest they are probably doing the most work to hold the neck so when it does change slightly due to the conditions then those are the strings affected the most! Just a theory though
NW France, 10 electrics 2 basses 4 acoustics 1 cigar box 1 res . Most pretty stable tuning wise, the odd one may be 1/2 a semi tone off and need a tweak. All bar the last 2 tele and resonator set up by my local luthier. My old 96 pimp strat is a bit high but works that way. Truss rods ? Don’t touch em.
The more you fiddle the more problems you find. . . or create.
