Faith Legacy vs Martin D10E

[vanian]

Thanks so much for looking into it.
I think as you say I probably can’t go wrong with either.
I think the Faith wins on paper, but a Martin wins on reputation and the Martin factor, and is slightly cheaper.
Shame I can’t test them. Maybe I’ll try have a go to try hold a Faith at the weekend even if it’s a different model, and a low end Martin to get a feel how they compare.
Thanks for the help, very nice of you all

And if anyone has played either of both these models, it would be interesting to hear too

[RobDickinson]

Interesting discussion, like many top brands they trade a lot on their name.

“the Martin factor” is that it has martin on the headstock. This assumes a certain level of build and QC for sure.

But it doesnt mean its a better built or better spec/sounding guitar than the faith.

[tony]

A couple of comments. When I was first learning it was on a Maton with the narrower nut (1 11/16") like your Yamaha. A friend (brilliant guitarist) put me on to a guitar with a wider nut. 1 3/4" and said it would make my playing easier. At that stage I was only playing fingerstyle. It did make my playing easier. Chords that seemed impossible were now only hard and it gave me extra encouragement to try them. I was concerned it would make it harder for me to play guitars with a narrower nut if I got handed one in a social situation. He assured me over time i had nothing to worry about. And he was right. I still prefer the wider nut but can play either if needed. I’ve heard the opposite from others so spend as much time playing the wider nut guitar in the store before you make your decision.

I also decided after I was progressing with my playing to treat myself to a nicer guitar and it was a fun journey. I spent a good year chasing that better guitar. I played mostly Taylors and Martins with a few others thrown in (Gibsons, etc). For me, the Taylors suited me better than the Martins. This isn’t to put you off the Martins, more to emphasize it’s a very personal choice. Don’t go as much for the reputation as you do for the sound of the guitar in your hands.

And be confident you are happy with the sound. One Taylor I got had a great feel, looked lovely, etc but just didn’t quite have the volume / projection I wanted. I thought it might get better as I got more used to the guitar. It didn’t. Thankfully I’d got it second hand and was able to sell it later for very similar to what I paid for it. With the next Taylor I got I spent a bit more time playing it and it was much better. Take your time, you have a friendly Yamaha to keep you company in the mean time.

[vanian]

Right, and usually I don’t go for paying for the name for things. At all though there’s a certain allure to a Martin, and based on great reputation in this instance. I haven’t head many a bad thing said about their guitars. Faith isn’t really a well known brand globally at least, but based on user positive comments I’m happy to consider it over the Martin. Though aesthetics counts a little too, like I’m impressed with the Faith, but their logo is rather big and tad ugly (in my eyes), and we all like our guitars to look the part But i would get use to it. It may well be better than the Martin in tone too Maybe there’s even some lesser known ones better than both, the challenge is find out which It’s interesting as you say, usually i find non-brands just as good as brands, but I think Martin has earned the rep, as far as i can see. As with Gibson and Taylor i suppose too.

[vanian]

Hi Tony, thanks for your input. This is very helpful for my other dilemma on the nut width, as I feel if i had a sliver of extra room it would help a lot. I just feel that extra space, even if only slight would be a big help. So it’s nice to read about your experience. The only thing i worried was about fretting with the thumb but i heard it doesn’t really affect it.
And i have an electric with narrower neck of course, so I imagine I would be able to handle either.
Well i have to retire for the night but good to hear about the necks width, I think it might be a benefit.
And yes, my lowly Yamaha does the job for me pretty well for the time being. I hope if I upgrade, there’s a noticeable difference though :))

[Notter]

Right…fed, watered (or wined rather!)…
I’d first point to this post when I bought my Faith a couple of months ago now.

When I first started learning with Justin’s course I was using a Yamaha from about 20 years ago that I had from previous failed attempts. Proper dreadnought and it was huuuuge, not comfortable at all to play. But I got far enough into the course that I then moved to an electric and didn’t really go back to the Yamaha at all. However I love the sound of an acoustic and finally succumbed to getting a proper modern one (The Yamaha was donated to a local charity shop where it sold within a day apaprently, hope it went to a good home )

I did much reasearch with the usual suspects but was biased by my love of PRS and had reserved a SE Angelus at my store to test drive but nothing else. When I was there I asked the staff if they’d recommend something else to try alongside it which plonked the Faith in my hands. Busy day in store so I was tucked away in the studio kit room of the store. I tried the PRS first, felt great, sounded great, expectations ticked… Picked up the Faith, played one chord and thought “hang on” that sounds like it’s filling the room where the PRS didn’t. Just so warm by comparison. I was in that room for, literally, 90 minutes playing each back to back and with every song the Faith just sounded better, was nicer and easier to play, seemed to hold tune better (though I appreciate that’s not necessarily a fair statement with an out of the box instrument), and even sat a little more comfortably. Chatting with the staff after deciding and my reasons why they weren’t surprised.

Having had it a couple of months now, so still pretty young, so to speak, and as I said above, I dont’ have a single regret on the decision. Firstly, the Blood Moon I have to me just looks the absolute bomb, it makes me want to pick up and play and the finish is just amaxing quality. Grover tuners are really nice and stable, I recently installed Grover lockers on my electric so was actually quite pleased this came with (non-locking) Grovers too. The satin neck I find amazing to play on, at the moment it’s the biggest tactile difference I’ve felt in a guitar. Fretboard is smooth as, and the frets themselves are nicely edged, the neck is very smooth.

2 things I’ll say in conclusion, firstly don’t get hung up on a preferred brand as such, a headstock and logo is all good, but (and most importantly) play them side by side, your hands and ears will tell you which one is yours. Especially for what is not an insignificant amount of money.

Bonus 3rd conclusion - Definitely take a Faith for a spin though

Look forward to seeing and hearing what becomes yours!!

[stitch]

@vanian

I hope if I upgrade, there’s a noticeable difference though :))

The only way to know is play them side by side. You may find you don’t like either and come home with a completely different brand. Good luck in your search have fun playing all those guitars in your price range.

[vanian]

@stitch Indeed! I wish I could try both, the D10e seems hard to find in store. I suspect I could try some Faiths at the weekend though, the local seems to have several. Thanks for your replies, they’re helpful.

@Notter Thanks for returning with your experience and a fully belly, and really interesting to read through your reply, it was worth the wait. We both went the Yamaha route to start, and I’d definitely recommend them to beginners. It got me playing so can’t be bad
My first guitar as a teen was a bargain basement non-branded thing, no wonder i never got anywhere. Wish I’d have had better equipment back then, and youtube etc, instead I just had a book which only showed power chords But getting along ok somehow, as a getting oldie.

I had a look at the SE Angelus just now, it looks quite nice too. Though I think I’ve narrowed my choice down to the ones in this thread. If they have one down at the store when I go I’ll have a look at it too. But I guess there’s so many good guitars around we have to draw the line somewhere or we’d never get one :))
It must be nice to find the PRS ticked all your boxes, and then found the next one even better. I wish they had a private place to test them out in my store, I always feel awkward trying them in public, any skills immediately disappears when people are around (same as when we try to record anything, the fingers immediately refuse to comply!).

When you strummed the Faith, that’s what happened when I tried an X-Series Martin in the story (I think that’s what it was, I just picked up a similar priced/shaped model to the D10e), and when I strummed a chord it just resonated so well and had that right tone. I need to do that with a Faith, I should have done so at the time.
Yes, I think sometimes the store guitars have that ‘new string’ sound, that even my Yamaha sounds good for a couple of days with new strings. So the store guitars maybe sound slightly better than they are.

And your experience with the Faith seem to echo everything I’ve read online, that they play and sound great too. I don’t think I’ve read any bad words about them. Funnily, a couple of reviewers said they don’t like the internal label And one reviewer said the pickups aren’t ideal but that doesn’t bother me, I will be playing unplugged mainly.
And nobody seems to have any regrets buying it. I do feel swaying more towards Faith, I’m hoping to hear from a D10E user too, there seems to be not much online about it but what i’ve seen is all positive too.

Also, I totally agree the Blood Moon version is beautiful and definitely my favourite Faith for looks. But I think I would get the Legacy (as long as the price in a certain shop stays ‘low’…if it goes up then it’ll be a change of plan). And I think I wouldn’t mind having a traditional design guitar.
They said the Legacy has a ‘torrefied’ top (my spell checker thinks it’s terrified), which is supposed to be like a roasting to give it a head start on aging and tone - but i don’t know if this is on the other models or indeed the Martin, i think maybe not.
It sounds like your Faith is a pleasure to play too.

For sure, I think with Martin, a chunk of the price would be going towards that name on the headstock, though there is a reason they are desirable. I think deep down most of us acoustic players would rather like to have a Martin name on our guitar, not everyone of course. But it’s not everything, I would rather have the best guitar than the best name. Just we know Martins have a super reputation. However, having said that, I was watching a YouTube vid on the Faiths last night from a store owner, and he was having a small go at Martin for having a poor, short, warranty on their guitars and he said in his shop he saw more issues with them. But of course we have to take online videos with a pinch of salt sometimes, that’s why i appreciate your views as an owner.
It’s like those Positive Grid Spark amplifiers… I had half an eye on those since they seem to have glowing reviews on YouTube - but when you look a bit more closely, you get the impression that the vast majority of those reviews have some sponsorship, money changing hands. They seem to know how to market it. But it’s probably still quite good.
I think the shop owner mentioning the Martin things as an aside was being genuine. It wouldn’t put me off Martins too much, as I say they’re desired for a reason. But it’s another thing to think about, and the warranty was mentioned by @stitch too (thanks).

I do think i need to have a go on a Faith though just to see for myself. I can’t get my hands on a D10E yet, but going on the similar model i think it would be good. Let’s see how the Faith does, if i can get down the the store
Oh and the Faith has a lovely hard case too, though that won’t sway me, it’s all about the guitar

But thanks for letting me know how your Faith is, @Notter. I forgot to read your initial post from when you bought yours, which i have now remedied. Yours is a real beauty, enjoy playing!

[stitch]

@vanian You need to ask yourself “What am I going to use this guitar for?” You mentioned you like folk music. Do you sing when playing? Do you have a strong singing voice? Why do you want a dred? The are loud, big and uncomfortable to play when sitting.
Do you play Bluegrass with a banjo and mandolin? This is what a dred was designed for.
If you are trying to decide what guitar you want without actually playing them you’re not doing youself any favors. It seems the only reason you want a Martin is because of what you’ve read and seen on the internet. Yes Martin has a good reputation but so does every guitar manufacture when you only talk to people who love them. You have a Yamaha. They have just as good of a reputation as Martin and their high end guitars are twice as good as Martin for the same money. Check out Yamaha LL series they start at about $1000 and go as high as $6 or $7000
I’m not trying to put you off Martin but I think you should play every guitar you can in your price range before you choose.
Every person I know who owns a Martin guitars Loves them but thats only about 5% of the people I jam with.

[vanian]

Oh no no, no singing from me. Aside from my terrible singing voice my fingers immediately stop working when I try do anything else But no i wouldn’t inflict that on anyone, or myself.
I do like folk style mainly, and I strum and fingerpick. I like the dread for a bit more volume and that it is a bit of an all rounder. Plus i like the bigger size for holding, throwing my arm over it. So I actually find the bigger ones more comfortable. I do like Bluegrass to listen to for sure, though I just try a little of that but more later. I’m interested in that style. I do have a basic banjo but honestly i haven’t touched it much since I want to concentrate learning guitar and i think that would throw me. Though will go back to it later.
Also, not so long ago I got a Gretsch Jim Dandy which is bright and lovely sounding and i think it looks great, happy with that purchase. So i have the bright side covered. A dreadnaught would be better for me as an all rounder I think. And I like the look of dreads shape. I tried a similar Martin Dread but not the D10E and it felt a good size to hold and sounded good, so i think it’s ok
My other guitars are a Gretsch Streamliner, and a Yamaha Pacifica 012, but electric is not my thing so much and, ironically, I got that one to play quietly with headphones at night so I could practice more often.
I’ll have another look at the Yamaha range. I just have an APX600 which is around entry level I suppose but for what it is it’s good, never goes out of tune, just lacks a bit of oomph. Though that’s my first guitar that’s actually a playable guitar It’s been find to learn on and got me playing and through the beginner stages.
Actually, I think I’m less attached to the idea of a Martin now. But I know it would be ok if I ended up with that, and if it wasn’t a Martin…well that’s fine too, I think especially after the discussion here. The Faith is growing on me, just need to give it a try…and while I’m there I could have a look at some of the other brands. Looks good, seems highly rated, and quality materials, now I just need to hear it in the flesh so to speak and see how it is to hold and play.
I’m still only at higher beginner level or low end intermediate but I feel ready for an upgrade and progress my learning using something nicer. The APX can be a bit flat sounding and a bit less inspiring. Or maybe that’s my playing Ok it’s definitely my playing It sounds a bit nicer plugged in, but I tend to wander around the house and different rooms, so I don’t really want to be at an amp much. I like the natural experience
I play ok, my main weakness is forgetting where the tune is going, what the next chord is and coming to a halt. And my pinky work, but that’s improving. Recently, though, I feel my learning seems to be accelerating and am ‘getting there’, plus I’m putting more time into it and enjoying it more.
But to answer the question what I would use it for, i think a bit of everything
Thanks for the input, and hope you’re having a nice day.

[Notter]

@vanian No worries at all and above all have fun while choosing, it shouldn’t be an unhappily stressful decision!

I hear you with feeling awkward if you’re testing in an open space but how else are you meant to know? The store staff will have seen and heard everything, don’t forget that!! One piece of advice I took from a YouTube channel I subscribe to is to have a written list of things you’re comfortable playing while you’re testing an instrument, do a mix of songs, scales, riffs, licks, chord change exercises etc. It really helps when you’re the proverbial rabbit in the headlights in store and your mind goes blank. I think I used 3 or 4 relatively basic songs, some barre chord changes to see how they felt, couple of runs of scales and the obligatory Wish You Were Here intro (No Stairway obviously, not that I’ve learned it anyway!). A decent guitar store will not mind if you’re there for ages, they will want you to be happy with you purchase too.

Definitely look forward to hearing your experience, do share how you get on

[vanian]

Yes @Notter , it’s a nice problem to have in a way. And it gives me an excuse to read up on lots of different guitar goodness, and an excuse to watch lots of guitar based YouTubes
I’m a bit of an introvert at the best of times, so sampling in the shop is always a bit awkward but must be done, and I’m sure many of us feel that way I’ll go prepared next time, try a couple of things…and hopefully the acoustic room will be empty At least it’s not an electric where everyone in the whole store hears…

If I do get one I will, I’ll let you know which and how it is What’s the betting I come back with something completely different, or not at all?

I saw some of your songs here, you’re doing great and I saw your Faith Bloodmoon in action too. All the best!

[Notter]

@vanian

What’s the betting I come back with something completely different

Certainly don’t rule it out!!

Thanks for checking out some of my songs, appreciated!

[stitch]

@vanian sound like you have most of the bases covered with you collection
Had to run into Calgary today so I stopped by my favorite music store to try out the D10e unfortunately they didn’t have one in stock. They did have a D12e and to played nice and sounded good. Don’t know how it compares the the D10e. They don’t carry Faith guitars so still can’t help there.
Then I played a D18, D28 and an OO18 the OO18 was the winner out of the 3 but I’m not a dred fan so don’t take my word for it.

Then I when over to the Gibson side of the acoustic room and played a J45, Hummingbird, J185, L00 standard. L00 studio and a G00 natural. The J45 and Hummingbird were killer. But they are about the same size as Dreds and my shoulder can’t play big guitar anymore so I spent most of the time playing the L00 studio. It keeps saying “take me home with you.” but sadly i put it back on the wall.

Hope you have as much fun finding your new guitar as I did trying to find you a new guitar.

[vanian]

@stitch oo, some nice ones there. Is the “OO” range a bit smaller than a dread? I think they might have a D10e in my office city but it’s a bit far and I only go once a week, maybe I’ll see next week. I think Faith are harder to get over there and in the US, but not sure.
I heard the J45 is a great one but im pretty sure it’s on the expensive side. I quite fancied the G45 which is I assume a budget version of it, but alas no electronics on it. I think it has a sound hole at the top, which i thought was interesting too. And I love the hummingbird’s look but again out of my price range, so I haven’t tried it I was excited to try the Epiphone copy of the hummingbird but was disappointed with it’s sound a bit. I wonder how the main Gibson one is, sounds like you liked it. They look great. Let’s face it, we’d get them all if we could.
Going into a guitar shop is like a kid going into a candy store sometimes. Some nice instruments you got your hands on there!!

[stitch]

@vanian

I think it has a sound hole at the top, which i thought was interesting too

The G series do have a sound hole on the top I really did notice any difference in volume between the G00 and the L00 studio which is also Walnut back and sides.

@vanian

And I love the hummingbird’s look but again out of my price range

The one I played has a $5000 CND price tag on it. Little out of my price range.

@vanian

Going into a guitar shop is like a kid going into a candy store sometimes.

I planned to just pop in and see if they had a D10e there and was there for over an hour.

The OO body style is almost as big ad a Dred but the waist is a lot smaller so it sits lower when playing it sitting down. I think that’s why it doesn’t hurt my shoulder.
Here’s a size chart that shows most of the body shapes and sizes.

[vanian]

@stitch So there was a difference with the top sound hole on the G45? If so, i wonder why it’s not more common, it seems a great idea. Though it does look a bit odd

Woah, that Hummingbird is expensive! Definitely out of my price range. For that price it had better be a whole lot better than the Epiphone version I tried

That’s very nice of you to go to check for a D10E, thanks a lot. But I’m glad it wasn’t a wasted trip and you had fun with the other guitars. I wonder why the D10E doesn’t seem so popular or available as much. I didn’t see too many reviews and it’s not in my local (big) shop.

The OO is probably a nice shape. I don’t know if im right but as far as I can see, that kind of shape would give the depth of a dreadnaught with a punchier tone on the trebles, at least that’s the impression i get. So that’s probably a good shape.

So, tonight i had a bit of good/bad news. Before guitar started to be my main hobby, I was quite a big PC gamer. Now I don’t know if you’ve heard of Google Stadia, it’s like an online game store like Netflix. Apparently it wasn’t very popular, and mocked, but I really liked it - i was their niche customer - and had invested in quite a lot of games over past few years, and the games were usually leaning on the expensive side to purchase since they were hosted on Google. However, I just found out they’re totally shutting down the service in January… At first i was rather annoyed to say the least, as I say I’d bought rather a lot of games on there. Not to mention the time spent and loss of progress etc.
But the big upside is, reading through their announcement they are going to refund everything anyone ever purchased on it. So I will get all my money back in full. Which is going to be a rather nice windfall and effectively will cover the full cost of the guitar. So I think that means i will definitely be buying one, and come January will get it paid back That’s a nice stroke of luck for a change, and I prefer playing guitar than games these days so it suits me

…but that Hummingbird you saw would still definitely be way out of my budget

[RobDickinson]

Oh nice, thats lucky! Shame Stadia is getting dumped but thats google for you…

[vanian]

Indeed. I think I must have been the only person who was sure they wouldn’t dump it. I thought if they close it they would at least keep it open for the existing content, I would have thought they could have just kept the servers running. They did say before that if it shut they would refund but I didn’t really believe it. But looks certain they will. I probably wouldn’t have played those games, so in a way it’s a good thing and I can get a fancier guitar instead, nothing lost.
Just darn, lost all that progress in Assassin’s Creed
And …lesson learned, don’t invest in Google again. And control my game purchasing…in future, but that came at just the right time for me at least didn’t it

[sairfingers]

@stitch

Hope you have as much fun finding your new guitar as I did trying to find you a new guitar.

This really made me chuckle Rick.