Feature request - women's section

But is that the case in this Community Sarah? Because thatā€™s what we are talking about. Iā€™ve only been active on this forum for a few months, but Iā€™ve seen men here bending over backwards to help the female members out.

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There is certainly a big disadvantage (and danger with this)ā€¦it has to be thought very carefully and checked that it does not become a ā€œfishā€ pond for people who want evil as happens everywhere on the internet and also in buildings etc, with supposedly shielded clubs with vulnerable boys, men, girls, women and anyone else who prefers to be addressed differently is ā€¦ I will not explain this further because I think it is clear what I mean, ā€¦ but this is further work for Justin and his moderators, and I hope they take into account all the cons, especially those that you donā€™t think about now or canā€™t yet foreseeā€¦, I know the pros donā€™t outweigh the cons,
or,ā€¦a lot of work and moderating in that special placeā€¦come on in moderatorsā€¦

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Not in the Justin Guitar community at all. Iā€™ve been on this site for about two years - reading, rather than writing. Quoting myself from my first post: ā€œIā€™ve read JustinGuitar Community forums for a while and they seem all-inclusive to me, so I think I would feel okay asking any type of question [here]ā€. I mentioned experiences from other sites and the real world as female players with experiences elsewhere might bring apprehension with them here.

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I donā€™t see the harm in having just a thread. A thread exists for older learning guitarists.

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I think that a women section would be a big impoverishment for the whole Community. As it has already been said I would point out where the issue is, as we all certainly can improve and get better.

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Do the female members of the Community feel marginalised? Letā€™s all wait until we get more opinions from them.

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Speaking as a woman, Iā€™ve never felt marginalized at all in this community. Iā€™ve found everyone here to be friendly, helpful, and inclusive. Clearly the men outnumber us by far. Historically the proportion of female to male guitarists has been dismal, but a fairly recent Fender study showed that 50% of new guitar players are women. There is hope! For most of the music I listen to the elite players are all men, but this Community has some great discussions on guitarists in general and Iā€™ve followed through on some posted links to hear a lot of music by some amazing guitarists who happen to be women. Iā€™m still keeping my fingers crossed for the Open Mics, that weā€™ll get more women playing. I was thrilled when Jak played at one, but she and I are the only 2 women so far. Playing at an OM can be intimidating, but I donā€™t think thatā€™s restricted to women, and it doesnā€™t even seem to be restricted to beginner guitarists. And although half of new players might be women and girls, the Stat Iā€™ve heard historically for lessons etc is 1 in 10. I have no source to support that, but it seemed reasonable based on OM involvement and subjective overview of JG posters. I hope that those numbers donā€™t seem intimidating to new members, though, because as per above everyone is supportive and helpful, men and women both.

Weā€™re all individuals, though, and @AndyTake2 if your wife would like to chat about something specific have her send me a private message.

Rogier nailed it in the first response,

If thereā€™s an issue letā€™s resolve it. We want everyone to feel comfortable, and free to interact and contribute.

Mari

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I think that any split in the community of any sort would detrimentally affect the ethos of the JustinGuitar system and community as a whole; itā€™s never been geared any differently and has never presented any problems whatsoever before. If it ainā€™t broken donā€™t try to fix it!
If anyone has a problem, letā€™s just bring it out for open discussion and sort it out one way or another; there is of course the system of private messages, if two or more particular individuals want to discuss something in private thatā€™s the best way to do it rather than create a feeling of disunity.

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Apologies first of all for not yet having introduced myself I plan to do so this weekend but I wanted to comment on this topic.

As an avid reader of just about everything thatā€™s posted and a woman to boot Iā€™ve seen nothing on this site that has me feel intimidated. I agree with the statement that weā€™re all guitarists; gender really shouldnā€™t (and doesnā€™t) come into it. Iā€™ve taken on board learning points from men and women and up until now I havenā€™t really considered it in the context of gender ā€“ just good advice. It would be a real shame if there was division itā€™s a pretty inclusive and welcoming community from what Iā€™ve witnessed so far.

Do I sometimes feel intimidated that I donā€™t understand everything I read and by the journey ahead of me? Absolutely! But I want everyone to be available to give me advice and support when I need it.

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My thoughts. Note that while I am a Mod, this should not be seen as an ā€˜officialā€™ response that represents the position of the JustinGuitar organisation.

Thank you @AndyTake2 for raising the Topic and asking the question, which has stimulated healthy dialogue. I view this as a sign of Community health.

Thank you @Mari63 for offering to provide personal support through a Direct Message. That epitomises the spirit of the Community, being willing to help in a way that works for the other person, irrespective of oneā€™s own experience and feelings.

Thanks you @Majik for highlighting some of the practical aspects that could become relevant if one was to want to create such a section.

And of course, all the thoughts shared by fellow members, in a constructive manner.

My immediate leaning is that it is not necessary here. That there are sufficient places where specific questions can be posted and that the ethos and spirit of this Community would ensure that anything that is specific to any demographic (women or other) would be treated with appropriate respect and dignity.

That said, as a white South African 57 year old male, I am acutely aware of how my own experiences and unconscious biases can prevent me from fully appreciating what people of other demographics may experience. So I can but imagine what experiences women may have had generally speaking which may lead to feeling vulnerable here, irrespective of the ethos of this Community.

@Richard_close2u @LievenDV @larynejg Iā€™ve @mentioned you to ensure this Topic doesnā€™t slide by, that we can treat it with due respect, and close the loop.

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There are lots of valuable contributions from everyone and it is a sign of a thriving, happy, healthy community that the conversation can be raised and continued with respect and sensitivity.

I wish first to deal with the immediate question raised by Mrs T in the OP ā€¦

The short answer is yes ā€¦ lots of sections.
There are community wide categories:

If any of the questions concern specific issues arising from Justinā€™s lessons then the correct place to ask is in the discussion linked from each and every lesson.
Look for this icon under the video panes:
image

The links lead to any of the categories shown here:

More narrowly focussed, as a ā€˜catch-allā€™ sub category this would be a default to go to if in doubt:

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Personally I have nothing against the idea, if the women around here really feel there is a need. But I struggle to see the value tbh. What kinds of questions would really be better asked there? Anything about theory or playing technique should be 100% gender independant. Seems like you would simply, severely, limit the pool from which you could hope to receive a useful answer??

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The only value that I can see is maybe more of a social context, getting to know other female guitarists? From a theory or technical perspective etc. you wouldnā€™t want to limit the pool from which you could get a really good answer that helps solve your problem. But that could be done by a thread similar to the old learners topic.

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That is a shame although we are I believe a super inclusive community with an explicit ethos that not only encourages it but has it written within our community rules and etiquette.

@Mari63 is correct about that Fender survey.

In a smaller sample size, about 40% of my guitar students enrolled through the JustinGuitar Approved Teacher scheme are women.

Women have long and strong featured in the community forum. Yes, in a smaller proportion than men. I would like to think that all have felt on an equal footing as their male counterparts. If Mrs T has any sense of being put off that is a concern for sure. I would like to think that a little interaction on her part divests her of any doubt and trepidation.
:slight_smile:

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Are we talking gender or sex? :thinking:

Iā€™m not being facetious here (well maybe a bit), but asking for a friend who decided to do some role-swapping when his children were babies- staying at home, rearing the kids, doing the housework, cooking and has been known to wear dresses and wigsā€¦ :wink:

If we think discussing politics and religion is a dodgy area best avoided, good luck to the mods trying to clear the minefield of ensuing LGBTQ+ and BAME discussions that could turn this simple thread into a noose.
Iā€™d let this one peter out and get back to playing guitar.
Thatā€™ll be 2 cents please :wink:

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Hi Toby, you can hopefully imagine that everyone who sees you for the first time during your video performances together with your nickname doesnā€™t believe / understand this at all :smile:ā€¦ at least thatā€™s what I had when I had my first ā€œseeingā€ youā€¦
I soon knew better :sunglasses:,ā€¦ I think this is super positive from/about you ā€¦and thatā€™s very encouraging because it took me a while too,ā€¦Your sentence is snowing below the radar, but i thinkj it`s good to light out to be a support for many newcomers man/womanā€¦experience the same feeling in the biginning,ā€¦
I would like to end with a very nice sentence about uncertainty,ā€¦but not now :smile:
I hope you donā€™t mind this exposure Toby, :blush:ā€¦itā€™s for a good cause
Greetingsā€¦

Edit:
hello my darling Briana,ā€¦

i wanted to mention this all the timeā€¦my hands hurt from sitting on it,and my head almost explodedā€¦but i just didnā€™t dare to joke :innocent:

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Brian

You make a good point and like Roger this sprang to my mind but I lacked the courage to express my thoughts. Once the door opens where will it lead to ?

Lets just play.

:sunglasses:

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Roger

No problem at all. After 17 years of failed starts and arriving here in 2013 I joined the forum, read a lot of questions, read a lot of answers and gained a lot of knowledge but my guitar past made me feel a little inadequate and I had never been on any kind of forum before. It took time but I realised I had nothing to fear as everyone was just trying to help those who followed in their footsteps. Many like Rick and LBro are still here. When I got to a level of proficiency where I could pass on my knowledge and experience, I started to help others. The rest is history. Being part of this Community gave me the confidence to be myself when ā€œperformingā€ I doubt that would have happened if I had not joined.

The world is too full of division and my Soto Zen self says we are part of the great wide Universe. Let us be as one.

:sunglasses:

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Thank you everyone for the replies - a great discussion about the subject.
Thanks to @Mari63 for the personal chat link - I will definitely pass that on.

Iā€™ve been discussing the subject with Mrs T.
In my very best Uberwaldian accent, we may have shed a bit more light on the subject.
In my role as Mr Nutt*, we sorted through things:

ā€œSo, zer forum is a little intimidating, yes?ā€

" Yes"

ā€œUnd vot do you find intimidating?ā€

ā€œI donā€™t knowā€

ā€œCould it be that zere are more men on there, and you think zey are more expert than you?ā€

ā€œIt could be. There should be more stuff for complete newbiesā€

ā€œZere is newbie stuff. Ve just need to find itā€

ā€œIt is difficult to find. Perhaps if it were easier to navigateā€

So all joking aside, zer, sorry, the problem appears to be that there appear to be more men than women on here, and as a newbie, Mrs T feels intimdiated because she sees everyone as being more advanced, whether this is the case or not.

I am sure that there are issues women face that men donā€™t. Simple anatomy usually means smaller hands, smaller reach (arm length) as well as a few other anatomical differences, which may get in the way.

Iā€™ve been active on several forums in various subjects for donkeyā€™s years, and at the beginning I felt the same - everyone knew more than me and they thought I am an idiot for asking simple questions. Of course this is not the case, those thoughts were mine alone.

I have asked questions which later appear a bit daft, but I learned quite rapidly whilst studying electronics that most others in the class needed the same question answered, but were too afraid to look stupid asking them.

I quickly realised that there is no such thing as a stupid question - but it can take time for newbies to realise this.

I can cetainly see the point. As a newbie, and as someone who has a difference from most of the members (in this case gender) it is very easy for someone who lacks confidence to feel intimidated and round all the issues into one.

Perhaps a subsection for ā€˜Complete newbies - start hereā€™ would help. The ā€˜Community Hubā€™ would be a good place.

Thanks everyone.

*Mr Nutt - check out ā€˜Unseen Academicalsā€™ by Terry Pratchett.
Ditto for Uberwald

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This is the correct response. So rather than creating a section to isolate people from there fears we should try and welcome them so they feel part of the community.
@AndyTake2
I invite Mrs T to start a thread in the Social area of the forum to meet the many women on the forum.
I ask the men on the forum to leave there comments to themselves and ladies this is a public forum so no man bashing and keep it PG there are children ( @brianlarsen :rofl: ) here that can read your comments.

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