Fingerstyle advice - alternate or not?

If you’re looking for a different approach go take a look at Justin Johnson, he did a very good tutorial on Finger picking, I know of Marco, I have followed lots of his tutorials, he is quite good. I think that if you really enjoy finger picking you should explore all of the areas where it’s used including Classical guitar. You then have a broader pallet to use to do what you want.

1 Like

@DarrellW Great idea. I watched some of his tutorials months ago… really great player but for me he is like level expert… he is also really tall with double long my fingers. :smiley: Watched his advice for learning fingerstyle, but did not follow any of his lesson. I know few months ago he made his own course.
I like exploring others. Main goal is not to get lost. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Michal, @Carreta , thanks for bringing this up. I am fairly new to guitar (4yrs young) and not proficient enough to comment upon your technique.

Both Alexey, @Alexeyd, and Lieven, @LievenDV , make valid points and I would sieze the opportunity if an offer of sharing a few tips was made to me … :wink: . And if I may be as bold to suggest; perhaps a ‘guest appearance’ at a future Motivation & Inspiration Club session … :thinking:

Whatever is working for you, is the right thing to be doing, however in terms of technique there’s always the possibility of “information overload” in trying to follow several online teachers.

There’s no right or wrong in this; one cannot really criticise the styles of Paul McCartney (Blackbird) , or Mark Knoffler (Romeo & Juliet); arguably two ‘must learn’ classics in modern-day fingerpicking song compositions (imho). There’s a guy online who has done good lessons on these: Blackbird , Romeo & Juliet .

My personal experience:

  • the Thumb is mostly dumb, good for bass-line picking (strings 4-6), keeping the beat, and muting strings.

  • having a finger/ string-assignment (ie. Index finger - 3, Second - 2, Third - 1) is a good place to start and “beginner songs” mostly cater for this. However, there are songs where “breaking the rules” has to be done for one’s own sanity !

  • the Pinky - 4 is used by some an anchor-point (personally, I don’t do this, preferring the picking hand to “float freely”). I mostly curl it under my picking hand, sometimes using to mute strings that I would rather not let people hear. That said, subconsciously I sometimes anchor the pinky when flat-picking … :man_shrugging:

Here’s the thing:
Most ‘pro mucisians’ have developed their own technique, however we like to learn songs written and performed by different musicians. Hence we either copy their technique (obviously it works … for them), or we need to adapt and develop a technique for ourselves. The listener (aside the odd … :nerd_face:) wants to enjoy a song that is well played and won’t really care about which finger was assigned to a particular string.

Keep it fun … :sunglasses:

(AI was not abused in the writing of this post)

4 Likes

Indeed @Elixir1253

Just as the thumb, the role of the pinky is often discussed as well. :smiley:

That’s isn’t a bad idea at all. Perhaps in a slightly different format (a non-live one, where I can edit bits i do with several people, like you, @Alexeyd etc )
I’ll have to get back on that later.

3 Likes

Is this teaching a specific etude ? I did Marco 7 Day Finger Picking course a bout 3 years ago and just had a look at the screen shot I grabbed, From what I recall from a beginners perspective Marco teaches PIMA as covered in earlier replies. I know in some of his “song” related lessons he will not stick strictly to PIMA, so I wonder if you were watching one of those.

So if you you are just starting out I recommend using PIMA as it is generally the common approach.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner For me Marco likes much more classical guitar and you can see it in many of his videos… especially in his fingerpicking style.
For example that alternating finger on one string you can see in this video which is summary of 7 days daily learning something new. He is alternating on 2nd string and he use it very often.
Did you mean this mini course too?
I must say I am through this course and I used this only in day 1… then I adapted whole thing to PIMA, cuz it feels more comfortable to me. I can feel I can not get that speed with my technique.

I believe Marco is classically trained. @AlexeyD too. Paul Davids doesn’t seem to be - although his bio mentions a music degree at Rotterdam Conservatory but not what style he studied. I don’t recall seeing him play classical - but quite a lot of steel string acoustic.
If you have come across mention of PIMA then that is a carry-over from the classical world.
P is thumb.
IMA are three fingers, not two.
If Marco is occasionally deciding to use only two fingers and shift their positions to cover three strings (seen as two pairs with B-string as a common factor) then he must have a reason for it. Does he not give one in his videos?

From what you share, you’re not playing classical music, you’re practicing and playing folk and blues-influenced music (at least in these three videos).

2 Likes

@Richard_close2u I think Marco tells to use it, because its how you mention… his main is classical playing and for him it makes much more sense. Also when you need some faster parts.
And that is what I am exactly talking about… now I am influenced by Paul Davids much more, but at the same time I like Marcos playing and he is doing different technique and I just wanted to know if I should be more open to different fingerstyle or a more conservative and “be loyal” to one, because I am not that far in fingerstyle yet.
But when I write this and what I can see from you all guys its good to learn new things and if I dont feel overwhelmed it is OK.
I went through Marcos 7 days mini course which I shared and many pieces I adapted for myself to play it like Paul than how Marco wants me. :smiley:

In the end… I am collecting knowledge now and getting ready plan for next year. This week I started learning some fingerstyle Christmass songs, because its time and I like it. Take it easy, enjoy it. :slight_smile:

Hi @Richard_close2u, I believe @Carreta’s original question regards playing a run of notes on a single string with 2 different fingers (what he calls “alternate fingerpicking”). You can see this in the posted Cirillo video around at around 12:00. This style goes beyond the usual idea of assigning 1 finger to each string.

I’m curious about this, too. In my experience (strictly folk/blues), alternate picking is not a thing, and I always use just 1 finger to play the notes of a phrase on a given string. I may shift fingers around to different strings, but it’s always 1 finger playing on a given string.

I have struggled at times playing, say, a fast chromatic triplet on 1 string using just 1 finger and clearly things could be sped up with the help of two fingers playing the notes. I have never tried it, though, because it doesn’t quite feel right.

I’m not sure what my question is, perhaps this: is this “alternate picking” something that folk/blues players incorporate into their playing? Is this a useful technique for folk/blues players?

1 Like

I didn’t take that meaning from the original post … if I’m wrong I apologise. I though it was about a choice between a moving thumb plus two fingers and a moving thumb plus three fingers.

Alternating finger picking on a single string is a slightly different question to using two vs three fingers for the G, B and E strings when in general finger picking play.

1 Like

As a 5 string banjo player as well as learning guitar, I really enjoy applying what I know about banjo picking to guitar. Rules Schmules. You do what works for you. For years, the teaching was: never play the same string twice. Then along comes this guy named Don Reno who developed a single string style of playing using two fingers on the same string. If it sounds good, you’re doing it right. Doesn’t really matter how.

2 Likes

Hmm, I just re-read the original post and now I’m not sure about my interpretation. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I’d be happy to hear your opinion about my question, if you have one. Whether folk/blues style finger pickers incorporate the classical technique of playing fast lines on 1 string with two fingers.

1 Like

In my opinion, yes, it’s very useful. You can be much faster and smoother (which also requires practice, of course). I wouldn’t limit it to the classical guitar world. I use this kind of “alternate picking” fingerstyle on a steel string acoustic all the time. (A good example is this recording of Is There Anybody Out There? – that’s the thumb holding down the bass and alternate fingers (mostly i and m) doing the other single note stuff.)

Note that I’m not saying you always use it. There are songs or passages within songs where something else makes more sense and/or is more efficient. But it’s the long-standing default approach in the classical world because it works very well. For me, it’s the way to go.

2 Likes

Makes sense, thanks for your thoughts.

1 Like

Just out of curiosity, did you come to this technique via classical training?

1 Like

I would say yes, that and other means of doing so … for instance Mark Knopfler’s use of thumb & 1st finger on the fast arpeggio licks in the Sultans Of Swing solo that play a few successive notes on one string.

2 Likes

Good point. I think using thumb plus finger would seem more natural from a folk/blues viewpoint (like Knopfler’s).

1 Like

I’m classically trained on piano, but not on guitar. I did, however, utilize classical guitar resources (books, videos, etudes, et cetera) when learning and developing the technique.

1 Like

I play folk fingerstyle and travis picking and yes I use this techniques. Not so much, but it does come in handy every now and then. I think of it as the equivalent of alternate picking when playing with picks.

As Jason @J.W.C is saying it makes fast runs smoother. I practise it by playing scales in fingerstyle - 2 or 3 notes per string before moving over the next. I alternate between p and i mostly and try and get it smooth, and then also i and m.

2 Likes

I guess all your picking is Travis picking :smirk:

Thanks for your reply. I will try this out.

1 Like