Fire and Rain (w Krista on vocals)

@sairfingers Gordon thank you so much, that’s a high compliment indeed. Getting to see James Taylor, now that’s a big wow!! I hope the craziness ends soon and the concert is rescheduled. Have a great time when you do go, wow what a concert that will be!

Thank you @TheMadman_tobyjenner :slight_smile: Yes I was happy Krista and I could record a song she knows and likes! Yes it is the Martin, and yes CLA plugins are in use. For vox she started with Face 2 Face and then turned down reverb and delay a bit, and pitch up a bit (although some of the 3 choices on the top are also different). We also put the Cockos ReaTun at the top of the chain with automatic pitch correction in the key of C# (ahem, I added that one, the easy ones are my specialty. :laughing: ). For guitar using CLA Unplugged she started with Mix Compactor and turned the 2 Reverbs down, and delay down a bit. The choices at the top are different too.

Lol and thanks Brian. I think we’d need to do one of the very few songs (okay one song) I sing harmony on for a fairer comparison to the McGarrigle’s though :slight_smile: As for the JT initials, I cannot think of a single song that that JT sings, but back on the Canadian track I will confess to having learned a song by the Biebs at one time!! :slight_smile:

Wow, that was just beautiful.

1 Like

This may suggest that I myself am a youngster, when I know for a fact that I am 1-12 months older than you - so stay in line there youngster!!! :rofl:

Thank you @Sarahsus2 :slight_smile:

Possibly (especially the “weirdish” part). Piezo pickups tend to have a distinctive sound. People describe it various ways. Again, it’s not necessarily “bad,” but I’ve heard the sound called quacky or stringy or plasticy, for example.

There’s a couple of That Pedal Show episodes on youtube that discuss it. A good example of the piezo sound is here, at 20:59 :

That’s the “plugged in piezo” sound. It’s especially interesting to contrast that to the mic’d guitar sound they have in the video at 08:44.

TPS discuss (in their typical rambling manner) ways to get a more satisfying “plugged in” sound. There’s also a follow-up video. And there are many articles out on the web, too. Like this one about using EQ to address it.

2 Likes

Thanks for this info @J.W.C . I’m going to suggest to Krista that when we’re watching tv together we should watch some shows like this to learn more. We’ll see how much she appreciates that! Lol actually she has more interest in the making-the-recording-sound-better part of it than I do, so this may start off something good :smiley:

2 Likes

@mari

Apologies if stating the obvious, the track heights in the TCP were the same for the guitar and vocal tracks? If not then use the +/- buttons at the base of the vertical slider to get the m the same otherwise you can’t make such a visual comparison.

For recording levels I suggest you have a look at this video - Proper Recording Levels.

Again more apologies if appropriate, do you remember the control on the media item in the TCP that shows the wave form that you can use to either amplify or attenuate (such a delightful techie word for reduce) the signal strength, which you would see as the waveform getting bigger or smaller.

You should work on this before you start to mix, ensuring that with the track faders all at 0dB. The levels on the meter after adjustment are averaging in the range -18 to -12dB.

Once that is done you have plenty of headroom to add effects to both guitar and vocals, which is likely to make each louder.

Then you can use the track faders to achieve the desired balance. Worth repeating that beyond a point it is subjective. In the recording you shared, I could hear both guitar and vocal, so nothing wrong, but my taste and preference would have been for the vocal to be a little louder relative to the guitar than it was (notwithstanding possible impact of my listening means).

Once you have the tracks balanced then you can look at the overall level/loudness of the song as a whole, potentially increasing the volume of the master track by adding fx. I always have a limiter as the last plugin on my master and use that to achieve the desired loudness, without any clipping caused by transient peaks going over 0dB.

When rendering in Reaper you can now see a little more detail in terms of peaks, if there was clipping, and loudness in LUFS. I aim for an integrated loudness in LUFS around 13-14 which generally leads to an overall loudness that is appropriate for YouTube. SoundCloud does not have a standard loudness level, so would not turn your song down if too loud.

Not sure that it answers the question about relative volume levels, but hopefully it all makes sense and is helpful.

Again as Jason did, have to stress how much I enjoyed the production, but know you like the production feedback, which I am comfortable to share my 2cs worth on (certainly beyond me to offer such feedback on your playing and Krista’s singing)

1 Like

Thank you David, it’s 1 minute to work time :confused: so I will check all this info out later, your input is very much appreciated!

1 Like

That was beautiful Mari. Great sounding guitar and vocals. Thanks for sharing it. :+1: :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

10 minutes to knocking off for the first day :slight_smile:

Wonderful cover, I really enjoyed it. Very envious of the guitar playing…

1 Like

Oh my, oh my oh my.
Oh yes.
Oh wonderfulness.
Lost for words really.
:hugs: :slight_smile:

1 Like

Wow.
I would struggle to find the words to describe the beauty of this performance to be honest.
The guitar was just note perfect, literally can’t pick any faults.
I preferred this vocal to the original and I’m a James Taylor fan so I think that tells you everything.
Superb. 10/10.

1 Like

@Tim_Wilson @skinnyt @Richard_close2u @CYPGMB thank you all so much, you are all too kind. :blush:

Trevor, for me there are so many folks in this Community and in the world who are oh so much better on the guitar than me, I decided long ago to be inspired by others’ playing rather than envious :smiley:

Definitely, the issue is that the lines in the guitar track went to the edges, and in the vocals track barely halfway.

Yes I do remember, and I keep wondering where it got to as I don’t see it anymore!!! If I could get it back that would be helpful …

The rest of your post mostly makes sense, and no need to apologize you may be being obvious but for all that I try I still have only the very basics of recording. I’m going to watch the Proper Recording levels video in the next day or two - thanks for the link.

Oh dear. And all I can remember is that ages back we swapped emails on this topic and eventually you figured out what to do to make it available. Of course I can’t remember the answer any more. I’ll have a look next time I am in Reaper.

1 Like

Mari

Thanks for that.

Face to Face is always a good starting point for that delayed “doubled” track feel. I must twiddle a bit more in future, as I have a tendency to leave the FX settings stock most of the time. Not used Mix Compactor in a project before, so another dabble called for. :smiley:

Always good to experiment, as I thought the mix was spot on, including levels but we all have our preferences and different audio equipment.

Cheers

Toby
:sunglasses:

2 Likes

Mari David

Are you talking about adjusting the level via the track and not the mixer ? If so just click inside the track and you should see a horizontal bar, which will be set at zero db. So for the tracks shown, put your cursor on the line and drag down for guitar and the opposite for the vox. Just try and get the wave form on each track to a similar size, then fine tune the balance using the Mix panel levels once you have dialled all the FX in.

Mari for Angels, this is how I balanced my vox, when I mumbled a few syllable. You can spilt the track into sections wherever you want and raise or lower the levels for that section. You can fine tune anything that way eg a slightly fluffed pull off can be raised to a more audible level.

To split the track just click on where you want the split to start and hit S, then again where the section ends hit S again. You can then adjust the small (or big?) track part and balance it with everything else either side or to the level you want. It can take time depending on the number of inconsistencies (like when I sing!). So where I was too soft I raised the level, where I was to loud I lowered.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Toby
:sunglasses:

2 Likes