Gertting guitar and volume levels just right in GarageBand

[Prof_Thunder]

I did my first AVOYP with my iPhone and its internal mic. But I want to improve the sound quality of my recordings so I now have a mic and an AI. I’ve just been starting to set everything up and do my first recordings but I don’t know how I am supposed to be adjusting the level of the mic and guitar so one doesn’t drown out the other. Am I supposed to do that on the AI unit or in the GarageBand software?

Below you can see a description of my setup and then what I did to make the first recordings:

Equipment/setup:

Shure SM58 mic connected to Input 1 of Beringer U Phoria UMC 204HD audio interface

Electric guitar to Valeton GP5 multi effects unit to Input 2 of Beringer U Phoria UMC 204HD audio interface

Beringer U Phoria UMC 204HD audio interface connected to a MacBook Pro running GarageBand.

Steps so far:

I have set up 2 tracks in GarageBand; 1 track for the Mic and a 2nd track for the guitar

They are set up so that they both record simultaneously, as I am playing and singing at the same time.

I turn the knobs for the input level of mic and guitar on the audio interface so they are at the maximum without clipping. The level is quite different for the mic and the guitar.

With that set up, I can record both tracks (mic and guitar) simultaneously, monitor it in my headphones while playing/singing. Recordings sound Ok for first try - so far so good!

This is where I’m confused:, mainly because I really don’t know Garageband

I need to play around a bit with the level of the mic and guitar to get them right (both for monitoring in the headphones and for the recording itself), so one doesn’t drown out the other. What I’m not clear about is whether I should be doing that by physically turning the input level knobs on the AI unit or should I be doing that in GarageBand. I had the feeling that once I have turned the knobs on the AI so they are at their max without clipping, I should then be tweaking something in GarageBand to get the 2 levels balanced correctly. But there are so many things in GarageBand that I don’t know what I should be tweeking and where it is.

I would be grateful for any advice. Sorry, I know a lot of people on the forum are not using GarageBand.

Best, Ian

[LadyOfTheCastle]

I am by no means an expert on garageband, but at the left of each track, there’s a slider that lets you tweak the volume of that track. But maybe only noobs do it this way

[Majik]

I’m not a Garageband user, so I can’t speak for the specifics, but almost all DAWs work the same way.

@Prof_Thunder

I had the feeling that once I have turned the knobs on the AI so they are at their max without clipping…

This is the first, and very important, part of the whole recording process. It’s often referred to as “gain staging” as you can have different stages of applying amplification in the process between instrument and your DAW, some of which you may not be aware or, be able to control, or know about.

In this context, “gain” means “making the level louder or quieter”

For instance, many microphones have an onboard amplifier. Some of these have a gain control. I suspect yours does not.

When singing, moving your head further from the microphone is a form of “gain control”.

On an electric guitar, using the “volume” knob is a form of gain control.

If you are using a unit like the GP5, this will be applying gain.

But you absolutely, positively, have to avoid clipping when it reaches the audio interface at all costs as, even the tiniest bit of clipping will damage the input signal. Once it hits the DAW any damage will have been done and cannot be repaired.

If in doubt, turn it down a bit from the “no-clipping” point.

If you are familiar with old analogue tape recording where you would try to maximise the recording level, you should ABSOLUTELY NOT take this approach with digital recording. With any modern audio interface, even most cheap ones, you have more headroom than even the best recording studios in the world had in the 1960s and early 1970s.

You do NOT need to maximise the recording level, so turn it down from “maximum without clipping” because the chances are you are actually occasionally clipping.

@Prof_Thunder

The level is quite different for the mic and the guitar.

Yes, that is largely expected.

@Prof_Thunder

I need to play around a bit with the level of the mic and guitar to get them right (both for monitoring in the headphones and for the recording itself)

For the recording, it simply doesn’t matter. If you are recording then, by definition, you can change the relative levels using the mixer in “post-production”.

For monitoring, it can be a trickier. How are you monitoring? I’m guessing via the UMC204HD headphones and direct monitoring (MIX knob towards DIRECT)? In which case there’s not much you can do in Garageband to change what you are hearing from your instruments through your headphones.

There’s a few things you can try.

Firstly, units like the GP5 usually have an output level control, and this is the best place to start. Assuming the guitar is louder than the mic, then try adjusting the GP5 output level so it more closely matches that of the mic. Make sure you have the INST button selected on this input.

Secondly you can use the two input level controls to more evenly balance the signals. I would start by setting the loudest signal (probably the guitar) so it’s not clipping (minus a bit) and then adjusting the mic level to try to match it. Remember there’s also a PAD button which will reduce the level if the guitar is still much louder than the mic.

Then use the monitoring level to get to a comfortable listening level.

Double check on Garageband that, with this setup you aren’t clipping, and adjust if needed.

The alternative is to monitor via Garageband. You will get a little latency by doing this. But you can then use the input level or a plugin in the DAW to add some additional gain.

Cheers,

Keith

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Ian

This is the way I do it, I monitor with guitar out of amp and backing track out of another amp played from GarageBand, with guitar recording from direct feed from amp, in my case I use Soundbrenner RIFF. I do not like using cans to monitor, maybe a mistake but I find the distracting.

I do few dry runs and set the input volume of the guitar so it is just below clipping(going red), I set this after setting pedals/amp to how I want it to sound.

Then I record, I play it back and listen to how the levels sound guitar relative to backing track and if need be adjust till happy. Then export the track, thats it.

Recently I have taken a simpler approach, outputting backing track to one amp, guitar to another, a few dry Ron’s balancing the two. Then a live recording using a Samson USB mic direct into photo booth video on MacBook, this works well and is quick.

[DavidP]

Just to add to @Majik’s reply, which said pretty much all I was thinking when I read your post, Ian…

I target an average level in the DAW of -18dB to -12dB when recording. Then you can balance the levels, apply Fx in the DAW until you have the final mix as you want it. I picked up somewhere that most of the plug-ins in a DAW tend to work best in that level range.

And you can then add Fx to the final Master track in the DAW to achieve the overall level and sound you want.

If monitoring then would agree best to monitor direct and then you would be setting gain on the AI to achieve both a balanced level for monitoring and appropriate recorded levels in the DAW.

[Prof_Thunder]

Thanks a lot to everyone for your replies. It’s very helpful.

Ian

[kestrel]

@Majik …Keith, your explanation was very good and I think I was able to understand most of what you said. Here is what I understood:

Your goal is to achieve maximum gain for each input without any clipping. I am guessing this will give you the maximum control of your tracks if and when you do any mixing (eg. hard to increase volume of a track without losing sound quality and lots of room to decrease if you took in as much sound as possible ie. max gain without clipping)

Second, what you hear in your headphones (ie. monitoring) is independent (or not indicative) of the actual sound quality of each track. As you said it is tricky and subsequent posts identify possible solutions for this that I have not tried yet. I am greener than Kermit the Frog with gear technology and recording music.

I am using Garage Band with a Scarlett Solo AI, Shure SM48S Mic (no gain control) and acoustic guitar with battery pickups with controls for volume and tone (Fishman Sonitone).

I do have a related question about the volume control on my acoustic pickup. Is there any ideal for setting the volume (which I believe is same as gain) on my guitar pickup and the gain on my AI? I have looked for info on this and can’t seem to find any. So far I have put the volume on my pickup to about half. If you have any insight would be great.

Thanks,

Attila
Cape Breton, NS

[Majik]

@kestrel

Your goal is to achieve maximum gain for each input without any clipping. I am guessing this will give you the maximum control of your tracks if and when you do any mixing.

Yes, and no.

In the old analogue days, it was absolutely about getting maximum gain on each input because the dynamic range of analogue gear was quite limited.

With modern digital systems, it’s not such a problem. In fact, the best advice is to NOT try to maximise your recording level in most cases.

You have a huge amount of dynamic range with digital audio interfaces and, although boosting the signal by 10 or even 20dB will degrade the signal a tiny amount, in practice, the degradation is negligible.

Put it this way, you could record a relatively quiet level, boost it by 20dB, and you would still have less noise and distortion than the best recording studios in the world could achieve in the 1970s.

@kestrel

eg. hard to increase volume of a track without losing sound quality

No. It’s not hard at all.

That is one of my points: you are far, far, far, far, far more likely to audibly damage your input signal by trying to maximise it than by recording with some headroom and boosting the level in the DAW.

So, if in doubt, always turn it down a bit.

@kestrel

I do have a related question about the volume control on my acoustic pickup. Is there any ideal for setting the volume (which I believe is same as gain) on my guitar pickup and the gain on my AI? I have looked for info on this and can’t seem to find any. So far I have put the volume on my pickup to about half. If you have any insight would be great.

I can’t give you a firm answer on this because I really don’t know.

There’s one key difference: typical guitar volume controls are mostly passive and acoustic pickups are active (i.e. have a small pre-amp). This may have an effect as preamps are not going to be completely linear, and there may be a “sweet-spot”. However, that’s probably going to different for every different make and model of pre-amp.

Your best bet, if you really care that much, is to try it out at different levels.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the difference on most pre-amps is pretty negligible.

My personal view is to not sweat these small details. They are pretty irrelevant and can, potentially, get in the way of you playing and recording guitar.

Set your acoustic pre-amp level to whatever is convenient for you (I would consider anything from 50% up is sensible), and do the gain staging from there to make sure you have loads of headroom on the input of your audio interface. In most cases, that’s just adjusting the input level on the audio interface.

You can’t go far wrong with that approach.

Cheers,

Keith

[kestrel]

@Majik

@kestrel

eg. hard to increase volume of a track without losing sound quality

No. It’s not hard at all.

That is one of my points: you are far, far, far, far, far more likely to audibly damage your input signal by trying to maximise it than by recording with some headroom and boosting the level in the DAW.

So, if in doubt, always turn it down a bit.

Thanks again for the clear explanation. Just a follow up on one point. My AI gain controls have lights to indicate if any clipping. Currently, I am setting the gain so that my more aggressive strums are causing the gain lights to go yellow with a tinge of red on the upper end (light indicator around the circumference of the gain knob). I was setting this way as I thought it was best to set your gain to the maximum.

If I am interpreting your explanation correctly it would be more advantageous to set gain so it is only green and then mix the recording to get the volume level I want.

Does that make sense?

Attila

[Majik]

Yes, or peaking slightly into the yellow is usually OK.

Any hint of red and you’ve probably damaged your signal beyond repair.

The best thing, as always, is to experiment as different audio interfaces vary, and the LEDs can mean different things. Always check with the DAW and make sure nothing is going into the red there.

Cheers,

Keith

[Ontime]