View the full lesson at Guitar Action (String Heights) | JustinGuitar
Is it normal to measure action with a capo in first fret?
Yes, because you want to eliminate the nut height as a factor.
Edit: this is incorrect. See following discussion.
You do not measure the action with a capo on the first fret. You measure neck relief by putting a capo on the first fret and fretting the 12 fret. Check the distance between the 7th fret and the bottom of the string. This tells you if you neck has back bow, is flat or has front bow. You want a slight back bow.
Checking the action: measure the distance between the 12 fret and the bottom of both E strings. NO capo anywhere on the neck. String must span from nut to saddle with no obstruction
2 Likes
See what Stich says. We don’t want to confuse “relief” with “action”. They interact but are not the same thing. Always set your relief before measuring action.
You’re right, I forgot that the two terms meant different things!
Actually, this is sort of embarrassing as I should really know that, since I set up my own guitar. To summarise (please correct me if I’m mistaken again), the following should be set in order:
-
Relief = how bowed the neck is. To measure, put capo on the 1st fret, fret the 12th fret, and measure height of string above the 7th fret. Tighten or loosen your truss rod till you get the appropriate relief.
-
Nut height. To measure, measure the height of the string above the first fret. You may need to file the nut down to the appropriate height. (Note: this is something that only needs to be done once, so it’s probably better if you get a professional to do this.)
-
Action = height of string above fret board. To measure, measure the height of the string above the 12th fret. Raise or lower your bridge to get the action to where you want it.
-
Intonation. Tune the open strings, and then check the tuning when fretting the 12th (and optionally also the 17th) fret. Adjust bridge saddles until you get them in tune.
Before each step, the guitar must be tuned. Each measurement should be made with the guitar in playing position.
You’re assuming the OP has an electric guitar
This is the only part of you post that makes no sense to me. Guitars are a lot stronger than you think, having it laying on a work bench or tables will not change any measurements even with a neck support. If your more comfortable measuring in playing position then that’s fine
Really? If you can do a neck vibrato (see linked) by bending the neck, I would have thought that the position would matter.
(I’m a beginner though, and haven’t actually done any vibrato whatsoever, so I can’t test this myself.)
Just the fact that you can do neck vibrato and not having to do a set up every time you do one proves the point that guitars are a lot stronger than most people think.
@barny Just watched the video and Justin explains how firmly he is holding the guitar to do neck vibrato. Having a guitar laying on its back isn’t going to put enough pressure on the neck to move the neck but like I mentioned in my previous post if you fine it easier or more comfortable to have you guitar in playing position when taking the measurements that fine.
Also most guitars the neck want touch the workbench/table when laying on its back. To stop it from moving around take a rolled up hand towel and and place it under the neck.
That’s true. He does seem to be putting in a fair bit of force. Some of the guitar setup instructional videos I watched gave that advice, but I guess it doesn’t really make sense (plus there are even more instructional videos where the guitar was just place flat on the bench).
I believe the idea of measuring relief with the guitar in playing position is to remove any gravitational sag in the string, although I have never thought it would have made a measurable difference given the tension - we need a physicist to weigh in (sorry!) here.
1 Like
I wonder how Chris Hadfield set up his guitar on the international space station. I think the internet has turned ordinary tasks into over blown monumental tasks.
I’m glad I learnt how to set up guitars from a professional and not off the internet
“Filing the nut down” really needs to be “filing the nut slots”. The nut is adjusted at each slot, there is an angle and contour to the slot. So confidence and a proper tool is best. I would recommend care, or better yet a luthier/tech for the nut. It may need to be done more than once, the nut and frets wear over time and at least with acoustic guitars, the neck angle can evolve over time.
Simple test. Measure your guitar action in playing position and again laying on its back.
I agree - Also folk seem to get overly concerned with absolute values. What actually matters is how the guitar plays and feels and then you can make relative adjustments. I very rarely measure anything these days, go on sight and feel mostly.
I suspect I don’t have sufficiently accurate measuring equipment. Technically it will make a difference, but I doubt it’s measurable. I only raised it as I believe that’s where the idea originated from. As above personally I’d just tweak the truss rod until it felt right to me.
1 Like
I doubt he did. If it had a fresh set up, it likely was before he brought it up there. He probably just tuned it.
A “close enough” set up is good enough for most things. So he probably didn’t fret about it. Think of how many people, even pretty experienced guitar players have poorly set up guitars. Every guitar I bough used, even from semi-pro players needed something meaningful in set up. Most people don’t think too hard about it and their guitars play ok.
The real question would be if any of the guitars meaningful parameters changed at all in zero gravity, like string vibration, sustain, resonance. Not likely by much, if at all, but interesting to think about.
another internet myth. If you have a cheap guitar or a Martin set up for Bluegrass the hole nut will be to high. So pull the nut and sanding the bottom to lower it would be the correct method.
So, that supports that it shouldn’t matter. The actual action is pretty arbitrary giving the coarse measurements and the somewhat indirect adjustment, especially with an acoustic.
When I want my action to be 2mm, what is my error? 10-20%? Close enough is good enough.
Yes, that’s what I meant. I would also add the the “proper” files (i.e. stuff that you would actually find in a guitar shop) are not cheap. You can get cheap ones on Amazon, but I don’t know how good they are.
Well, what can I say. Proper education is expensive, the internet is free 