Help for Circle of Fifth and Key progression for composing


Yes, it wants to go somewhere. It’s like crying for a continuation. It’s like…please guide me, I want to go somewhere. - The Dm has the same kind of feeling to it as the Dmaj7. Am can be used as end tone/sound chord in different ways. It’s like feeling home in its own somehow.

I was playing through the things on guitar. When presented as you have done here…wow. Things become so clear. Fingerpicking Dmaj7 and then strum on Dm or Am… wow. That have such cool effect on top of it.

Just for fun I tried out something.
Em6 - xx2020 both as before and after a Dmaj7. Works for my ears. E6sus? xx2220 to Dmaj7 also seem to work. Esus? xx2200 seem little weird, but could act as a surprise :wink:
But else start with xx2200 then xx2020 then xx0222(Dmaj7) then Dm and Am and back in known waters. - Maybe better xx2220 - xx2020 - xx0222(Dmaj7) then Dm and Am -------
Dm can go to xx2220 and loop is created and also have both enter and exit.

Wow… and can be taken even further within that. Holy moly

Reading through your post here is amazing and listen to those loops you created are beyond fantastic. I am already dreaming of a little piano thingy something, like I imagine you use… Now I am getting into the rabbit hole… no longer able to be saved… hope I don’t end up like Mozart or Satie unless I have created a piece first… :joy: :rofl: :joy: :rofl: But wow what a universe that is opening up here… :crazy_face: :nerd_face: :face_with_monocle: I am thrilled…

Trying to really understand what you write and also starting to get some ideas from that… how and where to look for strange but maybe good sounds… how to dive into the different chords and change a little thing here and there… how to keep the tonic in mind and how the tonic or key can change while still in connection with the rest - you are the most wonderful help a crazy dude like me can ever wish for… You are truly a guide … :+1: :sunglasses: :heart: :pray:

Like being a baby learning to walk… this is crazy, mind blowing stuff… no wonder you love this world!!! I totally understand why you luv what you are doing…

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You are adding an extra note in here. you hit string 4, 3, 2, and then 3,2,1? That’s at least what it sound to me. 10 sec in.

Rofl… xx2220 is an A without 5th string open. I didn’t notice until now. I just listen to stuff. That’s hilarious :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

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xx2020 goes well into Dmaj7 and then there are choices to move other places. I will continue with this. I like it can go into the other chords I like Am, Dm and E or Em, both E’s work fine with the other 2.
D to Dmaj7 is nice also and feels natural.
Somehow I like xx2020 to Dmaj7 better. There is something.
Also Dmaj7 to D7 seem better choice for now than the Dmaj7 to Dm, but depends on other things.
Amazing how those few strings and frets can produce so many variations. I am certainly moving in the right directions when coming to composing something… at least something.
I will continue fiddle around with this. I am starting to get a feel for it and will use both theory and ear as guides and all your help @Richard_close2u . My full mug of tea is cold. No food yet today, need to do cooking… oh my…wish I didn’t had to eat and stuff… oh well…

PS. Is it in Guitar Pro 8 you are creating those samples??? If so, I am on it right away! No need piano then or some keyboard thingy. Just bought Guitar Pro 8. - I am hooked :slight_smile: :partying_face:

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Your memory is probably of Justin discussing the melodic minor scale - a specific scale that has different intervals ascending and descending.

RE: Dmaj7 in a modal setting …

I gave two specific examples where Dmaj7 would fit well in a piece of modal music. In recent installments of the Modes topic I discussed modal ‘progressions’ and how they tend to concentrate on just a very few, carefully selected chords. In the two examples, Dmaj7 would be a good fit within a two or three chord vamp in E Dorian or E Mixolydian.

Try these for size.

E Dorian Vamp.

E Mixolydian Swamp

As said above, there are two occurrences of maj7 within any diatonic set of chords. Which means there are two within any modal set also. Here is a chart showing their position for six modes. If you are exploring, use this, along with knowledge of modal progressions, to have fun.

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Yes, if you look at the TAB … the arpeggiated notes are all eighths apart from the last two of the Am chord which are sixteenths, allowing all five strings to fit in the one bar and keep all else consistent.

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Yup. Correct.

Wow, that is really cool! That was what you were hinting at. That is so cool. It’s certainly doesn’t have to be boring, I see that now. :sunglasses: :+1:

Swamp? I can understand it though :wink: Still interesting. Picking or strumming and other details while using the same notes/chords can lead to a totally different “picture” So many layers. Just had a go at Guitar Pro 8 and wow… that is such a cool tool and I haven’t even started looking into it. - I am completely hooked on this composing thingy. Before I saw it as difficult to compose, but composing in itself is not the hard part, when looking at all the options, it’s all the details that makes it crazy :joy: :partying_face:

Wow. Thnx a lot. That’s some interesting stuff!

Yeah, sorry, was totally lost into listening and reading all your details. Totally forgot to look there. Guess it will take me a few days to settle in after entering this universe. Also took me some time to figure out I was just making an A chord with 5th string muted. I was totally lost into the music universe. :joy: :rofl: I now have gotten something to eat, which help a lot :joy:

Right, have somewhat understanding of what you are writing there. All these details are being tied together over the next weeks and months. I have copied what you are writing into txt files and are already sorting them into different categories. That makes it more easy for me to dive into specific areas.

The amount of data that have to be digested is… a lot! and yet… it feels so natural and cool. Can’t really explain it. :nerd_face: :pray:

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Yes, I came across that one again a few months ago. Great find.

Speaking of The Beatles (who also made extensive use of IV → iv by the way) … here is something Beatles-ish which you may recognise. It makes use of something similar to the D → Dmaj7 → D7 progression. This one however uses minor variations throughout.

The first four bars use these shapes with a chromatic descending line on the G string.

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I love it that your imagination is sparked and your creative juices are flowing with a spirit of curious experimentation. Keep it up and enjoy every moment. :slight_smile:

Yes - and it is a fabulous tool.

I will send you some gifts.

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Yes, the first 4 bars… then its off…but the first 4 bars… I have hard times remembering names and where I heard or saw… I know the first 4 bars and it continue differently… or maybe just because its played like it is… but of course can also be others who use the same, but yes, I have heard this before
Interesting it is using the similar progression. There is something to that progression… it feel so good somehow and also it ties up with the 3 chords I started with. Am, E(Em) and Dm.
If starting on Am, E, Am Dm, but can’t stay or end there, so have to go back to Am which then is used both as start and end. . Also if starting on Dm, then Am, E, Am. - Also Dm is ot really a starting place for a piece, but could be a start of a chorus. ---- Just my feeling atm.

Every word from you is a gift!
You are so amazingly kind :heart: :heart: :heart: :pray: :pray: :pray:

First 4 bars maybe fifth also…not sure there. - but yes… Pink Floyd. Not sure anymore :joy: :rofl:
I heard elsewhere also. Maybe even few other places… something is dawning…
Please don’t tell…
The more I listen to it, the more unsure I become. Had to search a little around, without finding anything that get near, but those chords are used a lot in Jazz. ----- But many use things from Jazz, also in popular music. Yes, could also be something from a Beatles song. They used all kind of stuff and also some songs with typical tones from India.
15+ years more or less only listening to and performing Drums and Tibetan chants have got me out of tune, I guess :joy: :rofl: :joy: :rofl:

Have to give up on this. I might be more than surprised to know what it is.

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Good grief @kimlodrodawa and @Richard_close2u ………have either of you slept? This all reads like something from Good Will Hunting……on steroids! :exploding_head::slightly_smiling_face:


Thanks Cate - lots of sleep, lots of rest but mental distraction here too to stop boredom while I try to overcome covid! :slight_smile:

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Don’t you worry mate. I am on it doing my studies. :wink: Already got one about triads (kind of) in the triad section. I guess more will come as I go along. Hopefully I will be able to challenge you, when I have got a solid foundation build. We certainly don’t want you to get bored :wink: :nerd_face:
It’s a tradition we have among my fellow mates, debate or share knowledge actually is better. But it poses a challenge that way, when some comes with a statement or very clever question.
I also see you challenge yourself a lot and honestly admit and correct yourself when you discover a mistake or something slightly off. That is so cool. It speed up the learning process for all of us. Big thumbs up for that. It just shows you are serious about being a teacher. We all can certainly learn from that. :+1: :sunglasses: :partying_face: :heart: :pray:


That’s where the goodness is.

The minor chord chromatic note walk down thing that this contains is in lots of places and is extensively used in jazz.
Don’t ask me about jazz - it is a genre I simply do not listen to, do not like, do not understand and know very little about. :slight_smile:
The technique is often called ‘line cliche’.
The line part refers to a specific note within the chord ascending or descending, usually chromatically in semitones.
The cliche part refers to its ubiquitous nature I guess.

It definitely alludes to a Beatles song. One that is sung part in English and part in French.
I amended it slightly to avoid copyright infringement.

I will reveal if the clue above doesn’t help you.

Here are two more pop-rock songs using an almost identical minor-based lined cliche.

Something Beatles-ish?

A song of new love? Or maybe the opposite of that? By a friend of George.

I seem to have gone off on a massive tangent (or down a deep rabbit hole!) all based on one little comment about D → Dmaj7 → D7 and its line cliche movement. But hey … it’s all good, clean fun and I hope you are enjoying it too.

I shall desist from any more line cliche moments in this topic. :slight_smile:

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More than enjoying it. Really cool stuff. And yes, I am on the challenge already. - Listed all the Beatles songs not long ago. We didn’t have access to the music as you who lived in UK or even US at that time. - I lived in Bath for 9 month when I was 14 - 15 years old, and I brought back single with Whitesnake at that time. It was crazy. That was something BIG. ----- We had to rely on that the Radio played or what a person might have recorded from somewhere. So if it’s not a song within this repertoire, I might not guess it. - However, just shortly listened and yes…I have, I knew it and also I have heard it in some other connection or two… I will continue listen after this message… and by the way…we had around 30 - 35 beatles sings that were played over and over again here in Denmark in my childhood and youth. Have been to UK several times since, but there were never music involved. ----ok back to listen and guessing. and I luv it… :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :nerd_face: :nerd_face:

The Beatles - Michelle ( Not well known here in Denmark though)
But sure there is one more using same chord progression… as it was not the one I was thinking about but uses Fm, Fmmajor7, Fm7, Fm6

Found other songs using a lot of minors, 7th and other interesting stuff:
Strawberry fields forever
Let it be
Penny Lane
John Lennon Imagine

Other one
Old Love by Eric Clapton???

Never heard much Eric Clapton. Hardly ever. Actually strange, as he is pretty good. But there are others also I haven’t much of those famous ones.
But then I hear John Scofield or Lee Ritenour, Roger Waters, Al di Meola

I have no clue or any good explanation why we prefer some over the other, even they play equally good in same style. Like in the Al di Meola, John Macloghling (Can’t bother to look up his name) and paco de lucia… all those three are seriously good, but I prefer Al di meola… Some of my friends was totally into John macglockling and not the other two…
Very innteresting.
One of my all time favourites is Sting… ten summoners tale and soul cages, and later brand new day album… that was just as I entered into the buddhist stuff, which ended my exploration into music for like 15 years or so…
Some really don’t like sting that much,…
Really very interesting indeed and it’s not always about what we grew up with, which is obvious from twins etc… families with many children etc… very very interesting…

:joy: :rofl: :joy: :joy: :rofl: :joy: :rofl: THE OH MIGHTY POWERFUL Dmaj7… :joy: :rofl: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face:

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Any luck in identifying the two new ones from earlier today?

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The extra you added to the 4 bars in the Young Love example … yeah…I can recognize something… but no… there I am out of being able to pin point anything… that would be like looking for a needle in a haystack…

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I have set this to start at the right momentSomething Beatles - ish

I have set this to start at the right momentYoung Love (Or Not)?

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Both of them totally unknown to me, even when shown. But I sure do will take a much deeper look and listen into those. (Have heard both sometimes, yet unknown)
Thnx a lot and wonderful being provided with examples that have similar ideas as what is roaming around in the mind. So cool! :nerd_face: :pray:

This one is actually interesting ( Eric Clapton - Old Love) to watch and especially how he uses the thumb on the fret hand notice fret hand thumb

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