I’ve been working on rhythm guitar for about 18 months now and want to go back to trying to play scales. I’ve done all the Justin guitar scales lessons from grade 1&2 yet still feel lost. My question is if you recommend one scale to learn which one would be best? It doesn’t have to be the easiest, just the most useful. The feedback I get is my voice and playing style fits best in the key of c, so I pick those types of songs most often. I tried private lessons before but still ended up lost. I don’t feel anything clicks nor understand how the scales fit into songs. Any advice from anyone would be appreciated. If the answer is c major scale then what’s the difference between c major scale and pentatonic? Feeling dumb here😅
In reply to your last question: the C major scale contains the following notes: C D E F G A B (then they repeat themselves in the higher octave). The C major pentatonic consists of the following five notes: C D E G A. It’s worth noting here that the A minor pentatonic contains exactly the same notes, just starting from A.
Sure, major scales (also called the ionian modes) are the basis for other scales / modes and are definitely worth learning starting from any of the 12 notes.
Which scale / mode is the most useful is hard to say. I would recommend gradually learning all of them. In blues and rock the most often used modes (apart from the pentatonic, which is obvious) are dorian and mixolydian. You’ll find tons of information how they are built.
I don’t know if this will help; I hope I haven’t caused more confusion. Have fun learning, Jeff, it really pays off later.
My mantra is learn songs, learn songs, learn songs.
It categorically is not learn scales, learn scales, learn scales.
RE the learning of scales, which, when, why, what you need to maintain a tight focus and discipline imho if you want to achieve music making.
Learn Pattern 1 of the major scale. Justin teaches it in G.
You can transfer this pattern to any key as it is movable.
The root note would be fret 8 for the key of C.
Stay there until
1] your fingers know it very well and you can play it upside down and back to front. Not just ascending / descending but in different steps and different interval jumps.
2] make music with it by taking a small portion (even one string at a time) and play over very simple chord backing tracks.
Re scales fitting into songs, you may want to check out the “Practical Music Theory” course. Grade 3 (one of the paid ones) is on major scale theory. As @Richard_close2u says, Justin teaches using the G major scale. One of the exercises is playing over a backing track using notes from the G major scale. It’s a good exercise and I think it will help you understand how notes from the scale fit with songs.
Take your time truely understand the Major scale and every other scale will be easier to learn.
The Practical Music Theory course is also a great way to understand everything reated to the guitar, from chord constuction to intervals. Intervals is the most important thing to learn on guitars to understand how music works as far as I’m concerned. Even more important than learning Songs.
Learn the most basic theory - let say this means about 2/3 of the P. M. Theory course2.
It is all about intervalls and that is more important then the name ot the note you are playing. (Yes it is later good to know all the names but for now you must just know the name of the Root- the 1’st note of the scale.
Learn the major scale i G or A in position 1, i.e. one of the 5 patterns . Notice how you can move this pattern sa from G to A (i.e. starting on G and ending on G then starting on A)
Now, learn the minor pentatonic i A in pattern 1 (called easy shape) .
Learn to move to another starting poin say G . Now you are on your way!
Good luck!
Actually, I’m also a bit puzzled about scales. I am in grade 2 in Justin’s course but recently started grade 3 of the music theory course.
@Richard_close2u says that the first scale to learn is G pattern 1 and this is the first scale pattern introduced in grade 3 of music theory. It all seems quite logical and nicely explained. As someone who likes learning things, I don’t have a problem learning this or other scales without completely understanding their full meaning and assume that there will be a big “revelation” somewhere down the line where things start to fit together.
However in grade 2, scales are introduced differently. The first being the open E minor pentatonic, then C major scale using open strings, then the A minor pentatonic. It’s a bit difficult to understand why they are in this order or what the relevance is at that point in the course and why Justin doesn’t introduce the G major in position 1 at that point in the course rather than introducing these other scales.
As I previously said, I’m not worrying too much about that and just learning what comes up in the guitar course and the music theory course, without really fully understanding the complexities.
Lots of good advice here, from experienced seasoned players. I just did what these guys told me a few years ago. Learn the major scale, and learn it well. Just one pattern. Give yourself at least a couple of months before moving on. Then maybe have a look at the Pentatonic Scale. Again, just one pattern.
Justin has volumes of quality lessons on this stuff.
The key is to take your time man, and build a solid foundation.
The key words here are open strings. In grade 2 you are still learning open chords and both these scales use open strings. So to use them you don’t have to move your hand out of open position
Both of the scale patterns in Grade 2 use open strings. In that sense they are open position patterns, not movable.
NB - Technically that is a simplification and they are movable - more on that below.
Justin is very keen for beginners to develop certain skills and knowledge early on:
1] knowing the notes names of the open strings and fretted notes up to and including fret 3;
2] being able to play riffs and single strings;
3] beginning to explore a little of the sound of scales and a taste of playing a scale in an improvisatory style.
Both the E minor pentatonic scale and the C major scale reinforce all of those.
Only when the full modules that cover ‘major scale learning’ and then ‘minor pentatonic scale learning’ come along does Justin reset and start from the conventional Pattern 1 of each. He proceeds using the CAGED system of five patterns.
Returning to the technical note above.
Open position E minor pentatonic is Pattern 1 and is the exact same shape as A minor pentatonic pattern 1. It may not seem it due to the open strings but the patterns are identical.
Open position C major scale is Pattern 3 (the C-shape) within the CAGED major scale system) and is identical to any other Pattern 3 major scale.
I show this below with:
E minor pentatonic Pattern 1 ↔ A minor pentatonic Pattern 1
C major Pattern 3 ↔ F major Pattern 3
The open strings are played, they are an essential and integral part of the open position scale patterns.
@Richard_close2u you know the ne t question will be do I play the open strings so you may as well put the the intervals in there.
There was already a very long thread on why in Justin’s lesson it was it pointed out that the open strings where part of the thread.
Unfortunately the software I use (Neck Diagrams) does not give that option for open strings. It would require more time importing images to another software and adding them in manually. I could have done it but I was trying to get as much as I could done in limited time.
I have edited my text and added more explicit explanation.
update - I have now pasted a new diagram with those intervals thanks to @Socio
Flipping heck. I have been using it for years and have never noticed that option. D’oh. I have longed to have that option and just thought it didn’t exist. D’oh.
Thanks James.
Diagram above now updated.
Thanks for the words of wisdom and tips. I’ll start with Richard’s g major idea. I peeked at Justin’s lessons but have to work the soccer games all weekend.
Jeff
I’ll check in during the week to respond to everyone individually
