How accurate are amp sims when it comes to tone?

Are the sounds you hear in demo videos actually what you’ll hear in real life?

For example, whenever I watch someone demo an amp sim from Neural DSP, I’m blown away by how good it sounds. But I keep wondering is what you hear in those videos truly what you’ll hear when you use the plugin yourself?

I’m mainly a blues fan. I love slow, mellow blues with clean tones. I’m also new to guitar and have never played through a real amp before. When I hear demos of amp sims, especially the Tone King Imperial from Neural DSP, I’m amazed by how good it sounds. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.

I totally understand why many players still prefer real amps, and I’m not trying to criticize that at all. I also realize that amp sims can’t fully capture the feel of having a real amp in the room.

Still, amp sims seem almost perfect for what I want to do. I dream of recording my own blues instrumentals, and the idea of just opening a DAW and getting great tones, without worrying about mics, placement, or volume just sounds amazing.

But part of me wonders if it’s too good to be true. What you hear in the videos — is that really what you’ll hear when you try it yourself? If so, it really does seem like a no-brainer to me, because it sounds so good.

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In short, yes - you can get those recorded sounds from the plugins. With a few important things to mention.

First, an enormous part of the ā€œtoneā€ you hear from another player really does come from their fingers… their touch, the accuracy of their bends, their picking dynamics, where in the string they pick etc etc. This is, I feel, why many beginners feel discouraged with pretty much any gear when they start out.

As for the ā€œamp in the roomā€ - luckily you don’t have to worry about that too much, because as you say you never played real amps :wink: But most of that missing thing usually comes down to volume and the reverberation that naturally occurs from having a loud speaker cabinet playing in a room. The opposite of that is playing through headphones, which many people don’t like the sound of. A (pretty good) middle ground is playing through studio monitors, which gives a lot more stereo width compared to headphones.

I’ve done all of the above, coming from a long background of playing live music with bands. Played tube amps, modellers, plugins etc etc. Right now I’m actually playing an amp modeler with the band - but through FRFR speakers… so I do get that ā€œamp in a roomā€ feeling.

A longwinded way to say - yes, if you play at or near a computer, and especially if you wish to record yourself, and given you have some sort of at least decent monitoring setup. Then amp sims are indeed a very good way to get started IMO.

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Hello Simon,

Very accurate in my experience. Its a very worthwhile and satisfying path; and not expensive.

@Kasper has explained alot very clearly; and as you probably guessed, he’s a quality musician with years of experience in various situations, and with great advice.

I’m much earlier in my journey, and switched exclusively to amp sims over 3 years ago, after about 2 years of playing through the traditional amp setup.
As a ā€˜home’ guitarist, its the best move I have made.

I use an amp suite called S-Gear, and the tones are simply sublime. Highly recommend it.
I’m a Blues player, and awesome blues tones can be achieved that match what I understand you are hearing in your research.
Of course, you gotta practice to play em, but thats the fun…:wink:

I use both headphones and studio monitors, so you do get an ā€˜in the room’ experience like an amp, plus some quieter times if required/preferred for practice/ playing.

The other significant benefit to this setup, is that all your playing and learning material is in one place, at your fingertips, ready to go.
And when time and focus are crucial elements in learning, this is a great setup for a home player. This is a massive bonus in my opinion.

Initially, you will likely go down all the rabbit holes, and twist and turn all the knobs and buttons; but that’s all good, as long as you’re learning, and picking up that guitar on the days that you eat.:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Eventually you’ll settle into half a dozen or so tones that suit all your needs.

Good luck in your endeavours mate. Its an exciting time. And reach back here to the community where you’ll get some solid advice on any particulars.

Cheers, Shane

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Many thanks for the replies. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Regarding headphones vs. monitors — to me, it makes more sense to use monitors rather than headphones (unless you need to keep the noise down). I feel that monitors tend to deliver a fuller, more natural sound — but I could be wrong, so please correct me if that’s the case. Fortunately, I don’t have to worry about playing too loud.

If there’s something that’s really worth investing more money in, what would that be?

I agree, very accurate but don’t forget these produced video’s often have:

  • a specific speaker cabinet simulation paired with the amp
  • some EQing
  • some compression
  • perhaps a bit of reverb

I only play over profiled amps these days, in the size of a large pedal and I’m not going back.
The most important thing is: does it sound good and usable for you?

My AIDA profiles but NAM profiles just the same; there is accurate and there is ā€˜less accurate’ but still very ysable and a character on its own.

Even if there would be a small difference…would it matter if it sounds good? a bit of EQ to match your style, guitar, room and most of all, the rest of the band makes all the difference anyway.

That’s why I blended and EQ’ed tones and created my own profiles ouf of them. a lot of fun ^^

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Welcome to the forums.

I use a Line 6 Helix and Power Cab. I am still very much a student but feel dissatisfied if the sound is not to my liking.

I will repeat a few items said above… You can get a lot of nice sound out of the EQ. Using the modelers gives you fast access to place some EQ where you’d like it. Maybe you want to tighten up the bass? Then EQ it out before the amp and then either put it back with the amp tone controls or with another EQ after the amp. Maybe the distortion point you want to hit happens in the bass before it happens in the treble, then you can EQ a sloped signal into the amp to better control the distortion response. Modelers give you a lot of control here that a complex pedal board might be both costly and hard to manage.

As for accuracy of the sound, it is not trivial to match the sound that you hear on an album. I feel that the mix of the guitarists touch compared to your own as well as post processing are a little too hard to duplicate, but you can certainly make a song have ā€œclose enoughā€ sound and feel. For example, trying to match Stevie Ray Vaughn’s tone is very difficult, but there are some elements of it that I really like to hear and can bring those out in my signal chains on the Helix. An easier sound to match is ACDC. I use an SG and the same basic amp setups copied into the modeler and I am quite satisfied with the similarity.

Speaker selection is important. You won’t get a deep heavy sound out of a 6-inch speaker and you won’t get crisp highs of something like a flute out of a 15 inch guitar speaker. My cabinet has models for multiple sizes, models, and brands of guitar speaker (NOT cabinet models). I can hear the difference and select the model that suits what I want to hear. Your headset and stereo will reproduce the sound, but it can feel like it is missing something. Be sure to consider the cabinet when you make your selection. Listen for what is important to you and target that sound in your selection. In my case I wanted to have variety and crispness, so the powercab was a good option over some of the FRFR that sounded pretty good, but lacked the modeled speakers. Studio monitors were too generic for me and sounded uninteresting. The powercab has a lot more punch than the studio speakers I tried. I have a far more exciting experience with a guitar speaker than FRFR or studio monitors. I tend to run my powercab in native mode, so it is just a guitar speaker and does not use the tweeter that is there for use in FRFR mode.

One final thing that folks don’t seem to advertize or discuss on forums is the math behind the models. We hear about using IR to get the tone we want, but that is only part of the tone. an IR is only a single LINEAR frequency response modeled at a single power level. Music has a large dynamic range (power levels), so the IR falls short of duplicating the sound we are trying to imitate. What I hear when I listen to a ā€œguitar toneā€ also includes the distortion that generates the additional frequency content that makes the sound pleasing. This distortion only comes from the model math and is as important as good EQ to acheive the ā€œtoneā€ we like. Watch for a demo video that can showcase the distortion points or go fiddle a bit yourself in a guitar store. the amp/overdrive/fuzz/etc models must account for the way the original amp breaks up or it just won’t sound close enough. This the non-linear portion of the model’s gain and is more complex to get right than simple EQ or IR can do. I don’t use IR. No need, so I could care less that something can do a bunch of IR. I want to hear the breakup which is what I feel separates the ok from great modelers. This is the case even if I am playing ā€œcleanā€ because we still have an element of distortion. It is a fact of circuit design.

When I first started using the Helix, I did not know what the different amps sounded like. I took time to listen to the models with my playing and could associate each with some songs or styles of albums or bands. These are now my basis to get ā€œin the ballparkā€ of something I want to try to replicate the sound of.

In general, I usually use something that I’d call ā€œmy soundā€, but is certainly does have influences from the music I like to hear. I am often thrilled by ā€œmy soundā€ when the day is going well and my gear is producing very pleasing tones. It is certainly possible to get somethng you will like to play.

I believe that understanding how a sound is made is more important than getting it pefect. Understanding how leads us to alter and experiment to make something possibly new and gives us a way to channel artistic thoughts into somethoug our own. Having access to a variety of gear accomplishes part of this and a modeller is a satisfying solution without the cost or space needed for the dedicated amps, cabinets, and pedals.

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No, it’s good and true. We are in the golden age of guitar gear --amps, pre-amp pedals, DAW plugins and amp sims are really good and affordable if you do your homework.

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The only physical amp I own is an old Roland Micro Cube which was thrown in with the brand-less beginner guitar I bought from a friend years ago. (Unless you include the amPlug 2 headphone amp I bought for travelling.)

So I’ve almost exclusively used amp sims since I first started playing, and I’ve rarely been disappointed with the tone I get from most of them. As someone who likes playing all sorts of genres it also gives me a massive advantage. I have loads of amps with easily interchangeable speakers, plus more pedals than I could ever really need, all at the click of my mouse, and for a price which, at the time, was only marginally more than the name-less beginner guitar was when brand new.

So yeah, these days amp sims are definitely worth exploring.

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To get started you’ll likely need an audio interface - many different brands, probably all pretty good, but I’ve always used Focusrite interfaces which are very popular and widespread. They come in various sizes and (unsurprisingly) price ranges. All you really need is the small ā€œ2i2ā€ model, BUT you could consider going up a few steps if you think you’ll need more inputs, midi, ADAT, S/PDIF etc etc. For example if you would like to hook up other stuff, like a gaming console or other external hardware.

For studio monitors, I use Yamaha HS7 monitors - another classic. You can get them slightly larger or slightly smaller as well. For me HS7 was a pretty good balance of physical size vs bass response and full tone. Honestly, I sometimes wish I had gone for the HS8… but not enough to pay for an upgrade :wink:

True, especially for modelers (as in hardware/pedalboard stuff). But plugins, like the NeuralDSP stuff, comes with all of this included, so in my experience those are really ā€œplug and playā€ wrt recording ready tones.

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Oh yes, I’m a fan of these. Find some good settings, save preset and you’re off.
Today, more than ever, it is not so hard to sound good in a digital recording and obtaining tones like in video’s you find isn’t that hard.

I use an ā€œall-in-oneā€ plugin for vocals too these days and it saves me a lot of hassle while the options are broad.

Sometimes people underestimate ā€œthe band effectā€ where context, backing track, other instruments form a nice whole song with the guitar. on its own versus in a scoped range in a band, it’s 2 different worlds. As long as everybody compares use cases within his/her context, it’s easier than before to sound like what you was online :smiley:

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Anything that offers Fender '65 Twin Reverb emulation will fit the bill. :slight_smile:

@andersson22a, also note that the majority of the modelers will have a USB interface. This negates the need for something additional (like a 2i2) unless you also need to mix together instruments/vocals that your modeler cannot do or you run out of inputs. In the case of my Helix, it will output a dry stereo track no matter what, and I can add in up to 3 more track pairs of wherever I want to sample from. I can add a track for what I hear (wet guitar), a mic for vocals, an additional guitar, Electric violin (yes, I have a friend with one), whatever I can get into my Helix.

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One thing I never fully understood when people make this argument - that means you’ll be connecting your powered speakers to the modeler (in your case Helix), and then you can only have, for example, PC audio playing if the Helix is turned on? Besides practicing guitar, I use my USB audio interface literally all the time - listening to music, watching YouTube, playing video games etc etc, Cannot imagine my PC without an audio interface and speakers :wink:

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I have the Helix USB to a laptop. The laptop is usually playing a lesson, backing track, or running a lightweight DAW or other tool for recording. For me the Helix is always on and is the only tihng I need to connect to.

I also have a cheap 2i2 copy. I find I don’t use it much because the Helix has more inputs, more USB channels, and is already hooked up to the guitar. I don’t record dry, it is not part of what I am looking for right now, but who knows down the road if I want to mix in a more controlled way than I do today.

I also have a PC with lots of RAM and excellemt speed for processing. I have this hooked to the Power Cab, but is close to the Helix to run USB and connect to it if I want. The main difference is that the cabinet USB also can include the cabinet speaker models. Right now, my skill level is pretty low, but I can see using this if I want to record into a ā€œfinishedā€ recoridng and not go through post processing later when recording something to share is of higher importance to me.

As for the cab, it can be on or off to get USB from the Helix. USB from the cab means I need to feed good levels into the cab to get a clean recording. This is also part of my typical decision to just using the Helix and not the cab.

The PC does have a surround sound system hooked to it for general PC use (music, games…). I do not play the guitar using the PC speakers. It is not as punchy as the cab. I use the PC speakers to verify a recording, but not as my speakers while playing. I suppose if I did not care about surround sound and if I had powered monitors, then using the external interface would be higher quality than the built-in audio on the PC motherboard.

I suppose the short answer to your quandry about using the Helix is that I do not center my audio around the same speakers, I use the Helix/powerCab for guitar and the surround/powered surround speakers for computing.

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Sounds like you have a cool setup that really makes sense for you, and in the end that’s all that matters! Thanks for explaining :slight_smile:

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