I’ve watched Justin’s (and others’) lessons on how to do vibrato. I even sought and found lessons on how to practice it meaningfully. I’m slowly getting better at it (wrist version), but what I haven’t seen is how to use it whilst playing. Granted, I’m a rank beginner (Grade 2 consolidation), and it could fairly be argued that I have no business trying it at all, but I’d love to be able to throw a little wobble into scales when I play them or maybe in my rudimentary improvisation.
The problem I encounter is that the pivot point where the fretting hand rocks against the underside of the neck is usually nowhere near that location when I’m playing these things, so I either need to quickly tuck my hand up under the neck - making for a not-so-smoothly inserted vibrato - or I’d need to change my fretting hand position for everything I do so that it’s always ready to do a vibrato.
So, after getting the technique down, how does one practice “being in position to do vibrato when the moment arrives?”
Thanks, Rick @stitch. It really is a treat to watch BB work his magic.
What I’m trying to identify is the mechanical how to play a melody and also have your hand in position to employ the vibrato. For us beginners who often have our thumb on the back of the neck as instructed, it’s quite a twist to put our hand in the doorknob-rotation position to do the vibrato. BB’s distinctive technique may make that a little bit easier since he’s not relying on that leverage, but I don’t see myself mastering his style in my lifetime.
So, is it mostly a matter of shifting the fretting hand’s position so that it’s always pretty close to being in place to do the vibrato?
There is no getting in position, vibrato (once it becomes part of your playing) is just that part of your playing.
You gave me the impression you know how to play vibrato and wanted to know when to use it. BB is clear in when to use it. There are even tabs of the licks he is playing. It is going to take time for it to become natural so take the licks in the video and practice, practice then practice some more.
I guess I’m being unclear somehow. What I’m after is solely a mechanical solution, a physical how (as opposed to a why, when, or where). The position of my hand as I play, for example, a scale, is not what it would need to be for me to add a vibrato to a note in the scale. That would involve a significant shift of my fretting hand.
So, yes, I can play vibrato in isolation from anything else and I can play a few different scales. My question is about how to merge the two things mechanically when the hand positions aren’t the same.
I guess your opening line gives the impression you have been working on vibrato and would like to learn to use it in a musical way.
It sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse. You need to learn licks and phasing before you learn to use vibrato. Using it when practicing scales is a waist of time. I actually think practicing scales once you know then is a waist of time.
Learn to use your scales to make music( licks, phases, arpeggios etc) them spice them up with vibrato. You will find when playing licks and phases your hand will not be in the same position as it is when practicing scales.
because that position isn’t the same as the one used for vibrato, at least not for me. Here’s how I’m doing vibrato, as shown by Justin:
This is from his lesson here:
at about 8:50.
I don’t ordinarily have that part of my hand in contact with the underside of the neck when I’m playing scales or licks. It really is a “two different hand positions” problem at the moment.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I think when most people are playing blues or rock they have their hand in the “open chord” grip for lack of a better term. With the the thumb over the top of the neck and the hand gripping the neck like a bat. This means your fingers are coming at the fretboard at an angle and means your hand is already in a natural position to apply vibrato as Justin teaches it.
If you are holding the neck in classical to play the scales with thumb on the back of the neck then as you say it would be a require bit of a hand shift to apply vibrato. I think Justin says to practice scales in the classical position but to play blues and rock lead in the thumb over style grip, where vibrato is easier.
I actually prefer BBs floating method of vibrato, feels natural for index and middle finger, but ring finger needs alot of work still
I think @Enky08 is on to something. You may not be playing scales with the hand position most conducive to blues techniques like vibrato and string bending.
I found Justin’s lesson on playing the minor pentatonic (from his Essential Blues Lead module) really crucial for playing scales (and therefore licks) with the correct hand position.
Skip to around 1:45 for the discussion on hand position. He talks about using the hand position that is natural for string bending, but the same ideas apply to vibrato.
BTW, if you post a short video of you playing a scale (or noodling) and also playing a note with vibrato, it would help others to diagnose your problem.
Sounds to me like you do need to change your normal hand position when playing lead guitar lines. Unless you’re playing barre chords or licks with big stretches, you should really have your thumb resting on top of the neck for blues/rock guitar.
Check out this clip of Gary Moore. His thumb was almost always resting on top of the neck and he was always ready to add vibrato whenever he felt like it.
Hi Dave and Bob @grabhorn
In one of the masterclasses with Justin (I forget with whom) there they discuss that they both have their thumbs pointing up and even not touching the neck in many cases ( if I remember the last correctly ) , but do touch the neck at the bottom with their hand as a pivot pointup during vibrato most of the time and as most people do they say…
And now , it’s what I’ve been teaching myself all over again since then … luckily I wasn’t good at it yet… I’m starting to get a little confused now… what am I missing???
Vibrato is a very personal technique. It’s something that you need to experiment with more than practice until you find what comes naturally to your style of playing.
So the best way to find your personal method you need to look for it when playing.
I think there were many styles discussed at that MC. BB and the index finger wobble and only the finger touching the neck at the fret and also the Clapton one finger only bouncing up and down. But yes the “conventional” way would be thumb over and playing the vibrato like a mini bend.
As Rick says its personal and you need to find your own feel. I switch between a semi BB for index finger and “conventional” mini bend action for ring finger and it all depends on the lick and where/what I am fretting. But most of the time its thumb over but my preference.
Yes, I know about all those other techniques of course and they were also discussed in the regular lessons in the free course and in another blim lesson, but what struck me most in that lesson was that Justin was not even aware of that he does that when he plays freely and that blues man tells him that and that that the “normal or easy or what the sayed ??? brain is bad today ” way was… and then just reading that it is actually recommended to do it differently gave a slight short circuit in my much too busy head now … I have to leave now …have a big party …Have a good saturday…bye
Ah, thank you, John @jjw. This is just about exactly what I was hoping to get from this discussion. I hadn’t seen this lesson before, and at about 7:15, he points out specifically where his thumb shifts from behind to above the neck (to reach the higher frets with the ring finger). The other effect of that is angling the fingers at a much more oblique angle relative to the strings and placing the necessary part of the hand against the underside of the neck to implement vibrato. So this seems to be the next step to bridge the gap.
Thanks also to Dave @Dave_Birnie and others for your thoughtful efforts to point me in the right direction.
I’m glad you’re finding this discussion helpful. The minor pentatonic video that @jjw shared is a great example of how and when to move your thumb over the neck. I would totally agree with that. If you’re not already doing that, I would suggest you start working on it. It’ll take a while for it to become natural but stick with it. It’s worth it.
Good questions. Sorry for any confusion. I would agree with the other replies.
Vibrato is quite a personal thing. There are common conventions that work for most players that teachers usually recommend. However, there are always exceptions to the “rules”. BB King and Eric Clapton are perfect examples of that. They have very unique ways of doing vibrato that works for them. Dimebag Darrell from Pantera also often bent notes with his thumb behind the neck. They’re all amazing guitar legends so they can’t be wrong. Most guitarists do vibrato with the thumb over the neck though.
