I’m starting to branch out from simpler songs that have mostly repeated chord progressions into some tracks that have a mixture of riffs, strumming, basic solos, etc. Nothing complex in the grand scheme of things but still difficult for me.
And I’m wondering how people approach these? Generally I’ve been just playing the song on repeat gradually upping the tempo until it starts to feel comfortable and fizzle out. But I’m wondering if a better approach would be to grind the various components which are catching me out, rather than playing the full song over and over.
I’m interested in hearing how others manage this?
I’ve also found when learning a song against Guitar Pro tabs, graduating to the actual track much more difficult to keep time. I’ve even noticed on some tracks they must have been recorded without a click so the tempo is changing. Perhaps this is just a thing which will get easier as time passes.
I always learn the hardest part of the song first. Gather together the skills I need to learn or brush up on if needed. Once I can play the hardest parts to a satisfactory tempo the easy parts just seem to fall in place.
Playing to GP or a metronome is fine to learn with but they have no soul. Songs are alive have feeling and often change tempo or dynamics. In other words they have a groove. The best way to get that groove is to play with others or with live videos of the song.
I think most teachers recommend this approach… Work hardest on the parts that trip you up, or that you can’t play at full tempo. Then string everything together and play the full song start to finish.
This has worked for me, but I find I often fall down on playing the whole song. Maybe because I’ve over practiced the difficult parts, and got tired of the song.
@stitch that makes sense. And I agree, I’m only using GP to memorise the song and learn it to a somewhat higher tempo, but this takes forever at the moment.
@Tbushell@GrumpyMac thanks both. It sounds like this is the way to go and I’ve been going about this all wrong. No wonder it’s slowed me down.
This is front of mind for me at the moment - I’ve got a gig with a band I’ve never played with this Saturday night and I had just over week to lean 8 new songs.
For each I learned the progressions for intro / verse / chorus / bridge / solo / outro then wrote down the structure for each.
I set up a playlist and have more or less had this on repeat for a week and I’ve been playing along to the recordings start to finish. I weaned myself off the paper asap - it’s easy for this to become a crutch.
100% yes.
Identify the section(s) / bars / bar that is difficult and work at it until your fluency and speed improves.
Work at and practice the transitions between sections.
Practice the difficult part by playing the few bars immediately before it, then reach the difficult part then stop and repeat.
Next, play the difficult part and the transition to the next few bars after it. Stop and repeat.
Difficult parts and transitions are where to focus your time and effort.
I learn the easiest parts first and I build in layers.
Song structure: identify which parts there are
Chord progressions for those parts
See how riffs, solo’s, decoration fit over that
For chord work I try to emulate the original for strumming and fingerpicking, start mixing the two, finding a balance between original and what I would make if it. Experimenting with what respects the feel of the song versus my own foundation; I use my ear to decide where the balance should be to retaincharacter yet make it personal
in case of solo’s, study the original but starting with only a very small part of it. That way I identify which shapes it is using and what techniques are being applied. I re-use these but in my own way; so it has the feel of the original but I play my own thing. This way I can scale up but have a playable version live fast.
I figure out the complete song first, which means understanding how each part works, and how they play together, and I do include lyrics in it if there are some. That’s usually a few hors. Then, I practice those parts that are difficult, like riffs, intros, bridges, or whatever does not come easy to my fingers. But I always make sure to play (and sing) through the whole song at least once in the end, to end on a high note and see how much better it goes now.
Thanks for asking! The gig itself wasn’t a complete car crash, which it could have been! There were mistakes, but we got through it. It was certainly a challenge!
After the main gig, I played with another guitarist/singer and keyboard player for a couple of hours - taking requests and effectively ‘jamming’ live with charts. The other guitarist played rhythm on acoustic and I was on electric adding texture with triads, chords in a higher register and improvised solos etc. I’d played live with those guys doing a similar thing before several times and that went more smoothly!
Didn’t get much video, but this is an example of what we were doing, ‘solo’ isn’t great but it’s just improvised and the underlying chord changes are a bit awkward…
Great, applying live “teamplayer” guitar skills in real life is valuable experience under your belt.
Finding a place next to a different player who is (perhaps as a more fixed band member) a bigger authority in the songs is a constructive method to serve the song. not every player is equipped to take that role because of a fixed mindset or method.
I bet you were glad you had some of @Richard_close2u triad drills and put them to work that night
That’s what happens while jamming live with some charts
Meanwhile, your audience will wonder: “How do they do that? playing those songs they never did together? wow!”
Fantastic Paul @mathsjunky so cool the people in the audience are not musical theorists. They dont know or really probobly care. They are just there to have fun. Looks like you guys all provided that for them. Well done.
Thanks Boris. I’m on my next ‘learning complex songs’ project now. I’ve been asked to be ‘The Edge’ at a U2 tribute gig in just under 3 weeks. Currently trying to get 18 U2 songs in my head
I went to a local blues fest over the weekend and noted on a few occasions that the musicians on stage were very much cobbled together. And they all sounded pretty epic. The one that stood out in my mind most was a workshop I attended that focused on the intersectionality of blues and other styles, but particularly bluegrass. Also the historical context of both styles related to each other.
I have no idea how long these bands had to prep for the shows they did, but more than once I heard on stage “this is the first time we’ve all played together”. Typically from local talent where a particular artist was asked to put together a blues band for the festival.
Personally, I haven’t memorized any terribly complex songs yet. The most complex song I play (and have finally memorized) has 4 or 5 different parts (some of those parts are several measures long, but some are just a single measure with a few picked notes - all of them represent a major shift from what comes immediately before) but the last verse/chorus has a couple little variations on the parts that come earlier in the song.
But for what I have memorized, I tend to work my way through the whole song slowly at first. If only to identify any parts I have trouble with. Then I’ll spend time focusing on the parts that give me grief. Then I periodically step back from that focus and work on the entire piece. Usually, I’ll end a practice session with a full playthrough. Maybe it’ll be the whole song if I’m at that point yet, but maybe it’ll be a playthrough of a section of the song.
I’m at a point right now where I’ve started working on a different part of the song on electric guitar. Up until now, I’ve played the same thing on both my electric and acoustic. But I noticed in the studio recording of the song that the electric guitar is arpeggiating the chords instead of strumming them. So I have slowed the song down again in order to work on that part. There’s also a short solo in the middle of the song that I’m going to start working on. I’m going to have to transcribe that part before I can actually start playing it.
For me, the act of transcribing something or even simply writing it out in GP from another source helps me to memorize what I’m supposed to do. And I don’t really get the muscle memory down until after I have it in my head. I have to know what to do first. Otherwise I’m splitting my focus between figuring out what I’m supposed to do as well as deciding how I’m going to do it. To an extent, I can do a combination of mental reps as well as repeated practice to memorize what to do. But then I have to spend time repeating the motions to get those down cleanly. I’m working on a 12 bar blues shuffle with some little rhythmic variations and a turnaround and as long as I was looking at the music the whole time, I simply wasn’t able to make much progress with cleaning up my mechanics. But once I could play it without looking at the music, I could focus on those mechanics.
the people in the audience are not musical theorists. They dont know or really probobly care. They are just there to have fun. Looks like you guys all provided that for them. Well done.
