I have started learning the string bending technique - and a lick or two

[Mari63]

@DavidP

And the willingness of people like Toby, to take time from their own practice time to make a video to try and help a fellow like myself is, reminds me again and again how special this Community is, how privileged we are. And like all privilege, it should not be taken for granted and flourishes as people give more than they get, so I have no regrets about the time I spend in the Community as part of my musical adventure.

I was thinking something very similar, yesterday, how grateful I am for friends, both in ‘real life’, and in this Community. My guitar diy project would be much less if not for my friend who’s letting me loose in his woodworking shop, and giving me pointers (and fixing up my mistakes when I go a bit wild using the reciprocating sander), and my guitar journey and learning would be much less if not for all of you good folk in this Community, also my friends

@DavidP

I know it is all relative but I had to laugh reading this, this from you who is working at PW and already at the point where you don’t have to tell us that is what you are working

As for this, I stick to my original comment

[DavidP]

Tough week … work, a first meeting with a group of third years students I will be mentoring, OM pressure … meant not as many practice hours … OK OK practice minutes … as I would have wanted.

I changed my routine to start with some simple vibrato to try and anchor the feeling of rotating. Then a conscious effort to keep my left should out the action. I achieved this by tucking my elbow in closer to my side. I don’t want to do that long-term but seemed to help a little.

I think there is a little more rotation in the bending, but certainly wouldn’t say the movement is fully internalised. I seem to rotate and pull back at the same time rather than keeping the forearm in the same position just rotating as I am a little bit more able to do with the vibrato.

Hopefully more practice minutes next week and continued small improvement.

Bending and Lick Practice wk 9

[Mari63]

Sounding good David. More practice ideas for me, too. I really like the way you are adding vibrato practice to your routine, I’m going to start doing that. I can definitely hear the vibrato when you play. I’ve ‘stolen’ your Smoke on the Water riff to practice bends, now I’m going to add some vibrato as well. What will we be practicing next? I did keep the Layla riff in my practice mix mind you - and that could really use some vibrato - because it has one 1/2 tone bend. And my practice time went out the window this week as well, too much else going on. I’ve been using Justin’s My Practice Assistant since the beginning of the year and I’m finding it a good way to nudge me to practice most days, even if just for a short time, to see my stats inch up lol. It also gives me stats on what items I’ve been practicing, and either I meet the ‘Songs Songs Songs’ mantra because I’m spending 50% of my time practicing songs - or I’m spending too much time practicing songs and not enough time practicing technique and other good stuff!

[DavidP]

Thanks Mari. I do appreciate you taking time to check in on my progress and for always being so encouraging and supportive

I figured the vibrato was a simpler way to train the movement, even if the vibrato itself may not yet be sounding fabulous.

Well, I still the riff idea from @Richard_close2u

I’m sure there must be more simple riffs like that. Not so sure if anything from Layla would qualify

In due course I want to work on the intro solo for Wonderful Tonight. Rick encouraged me to transcribe it, though just the thought makes me think there is something else ever so important that I should be doing … anything else … than exposing me to the challenges of learning something by ear.

Glad to hear the Assistant and data is working for you. I’m the complete opposite of my brother Neil, he is all over data related to his art and chess. I just drift along … I’m drifting and drowning … sounds like blues tune

We’ll keep at it, and keep getting better, week by week (as I think you said to Sandy)

[DarrellW]

Bends and vibrato are definitely getting better David; your bends are more accurate and your vibrato is getting more like it should be but a little slower than is ideal. Practice will get this but accuracy must come first. Be careful to not hit unwanted strings ideally mute them.
As you’re well aware it doesn’t take a few weeks or even months to learn these techniques, but it’s not a race and the end result is well worth the effort you put into it!

[Richard_close2u]

Congrats on progress David. First finger vibrato is the more difficult so anticipate slow not fast improvements. 1st string vibrato is also tricky as you can go upwards but too much down will have you running off the edge of the fretboard.
ps
The Smoke riff can be played just as you are - on one string. Which means the final note will encourage 1st finger vibrato plus bend vibrato part way through the riff.
If you think of the intervals, it can also be played across two adjacent strings using fingering 3, 1, 3 which would give you an opportunity to practice vibrato on the 3rd finger with the last note.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

David

Definitely making good progress on tone and action. That vibrato first then bend certainly re-affirms the action. You were pulling again to start with but more a rotational pull. Around 1:18 you got it and again 2:18, the bends that follow were much better action wise after that.
Well its all down to practice ! Whooda Thunk ! Keep chipping away.

Cheers

Toby

[adi_mrok]

Yes David well done watched it yesterday but because of OM haven’t had a chance to comment yet. Bends are getting better and better, keep on going!

[DavidP]

Thanks for all the continued support, encouragement, and feedback.

@DarrellW indeed, learning these two techniques seems a challenge on par with the first stages of the Beginner Course. Many moving parts, so to speak. As always, I’m in no rush and can look forward to the day of applying these techniques just as I do strum a dum dum

@Richard_close2u so far I find the third finger vibrato the more difficult, reason enough to play the riff over two strings to practice that 3rd finger vibrato.

@TheMadman_tobyjenner have to say I am enjoying the clean warm amp voice with the KT66 valve sim. I never imagined that the various valves would make a huge difference but clearly my ears are becoming more discerning. I will take a look at those moments to reinforce the right action.

@adi_mrok I’m certainly enjoying the practice and the progress. Long ways to go but I’m hooked now. Perhaps at an OM in the future (not the near future) I’ll do a Clint and do some live improv and riffing.

Also meant to say, that I find the bend on the e string much harder to get right than the bends on the B and G strings. That was not what I expected. I’d thought the lightest string would be the easiest to bend. I guess it has something to do with hand and finger positions pre-bend. Just something to keep experimenting with.

[adi_mrok]

I have the same with e string, I guess because it’s thinner it gets more into your skin? That’s my theory at least.

Will be fun if you do CT type of jam on OM one day! I was hoping to do one too but it’s one for the future

[DavidP]

I think maybe it is due to the middle and ring fingers being more curled so perhaps you don’t get the same bend on the string once the hand is rotated in the same way as on the G and B strings. Who knows. All I know is I need to get it right to be able to play the King Boxes

After listening to all the electric performances at OM, I’m also feeling tempted to try and play the electric through Reaper and Waves GTR. Will need some experimentation to try and get the setup right. To say nothing of live looping … maybe to celebrate my 10th JGversary

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@DavidP

After listening to all the electric performances at OM, I’m also feeling tempted to try and play the electric through Reaper and Waves GTR.

Yeah !! Go on, you know it makes sense

[Mari63]

@DavidP

I find the bend on the e string much harder to get right than the bends on the B and G strings.

@adi_mrok

I have the same with e string,

Me too. I’ve also snapped the E string a few times bending it.

[adi_mrok]

Been there done that

[DavidP]

And I have a spare set, just one, maybe that’s one too few, in my drawer.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

I bought 10 individual 9s, as I was breaking them constantly when I first started bending. Broke one since the delivery arrived.

[sairfingers]

Well done David. I’m following this thread with interest as I’m practising all these same techniques and it’s great to watch your progress.

I’m finding vibrato difficult, especially on the high e string as it’s so easy to come off the edge of the fretboard and I’m tempted to use the classical guitar back and forward technique on that string.

The other thing I find difficult is bending and vibrato with more than one finger on the string and then transitioning to the next note. For a split second I forget which finger it was that was playing the note and then I play the next note at the wrong fret either a fret higher or lower from where it should have been.
Practice practice practice of course.

[DavidP]

Thanks Gordon.

I seem to naturally be pushing the string up for vibrato, so not experiencing the coming off the edge issue.

Vibrato with the ring finger after a bent note, or the even more ambitious vibrato on a bent note when the two fingers are on the string, currently not something getting full attention.

And as you may expect … how’s about some progress videos in your Learning Log

[DavidP]

Another couple of busy weeks have passed by. I shall attribute less practice than I’d wish for to later than usual work hours, rehearsal for a local face-face Open Mic (it went well), and time taken up working on a final paper towards a certificate programme. The last is a big demand as it focuses heavily on psychology which doesn’t so much take me out my wheelhouse but teleports me into a totally foreign ocean, and I am at sea reading papers about the theories and work of people like Freud, Klein, Bion, but I digress …

Yesterday after doing some practice, I turned the camera on and recorded another snapshot of progress.

Bending and Lick Practice wk 11

Despite the lack of regular practice, I think there is some improvement. I am still needing to be really deliberate about the hand rotation in bending. I see my inclination is to rotate and pull in, the angle of the rotation taking my hand under the neck rather than staying parallel. But it seems as if the earlier tendency to consistently pull up from my left shoulder is less evident. I think rotation is improving.

I think pitch is improving by ear, physical observation, and calibration with a pitch meter. Still a long road ahead on that note.

I followed this practice up with some looper and noodle fun, in which I think there was better application of these basics, though the technique does go a little out the window when playing rather than practicing. That is posted in AVOYP.

Now the question on my mind is not so much what notes to bend as when to bend when playing. And this is linked to taking licks and using them when improvising.

Just to cement my own understanding, and perhaps useful for anybody following, my understanding of the minor pentatonic scale in intervals and notes in key of A, including the ‘blue note’ is as follows (from my mind, rather than a diagram)

R b3 p4 b5 p5 b7 R
A C  D  Eb E  G  A

Good bends when improvising over a 12BB in A are:
C->D
C->C# when playing over the A or A7
D->E
D->Eb
G->A

But when to play the licks that include the bends or just to bend, now that is a next level challenge to continue to work on.

Still enjoying the practice and encouraged by the latest improv attempt!

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

David

Took a listen last night but was getting a bit late to comment.
Vibrato definitely improved, with a good old waggle going on.
Bends are more accurate on pitch but you still seem to be pulling rather than rotating.
But the hand and finger movement when you do the vibrato is the perfect action for bends.

So, have you tried ring finger vibrato with the index as a pivot ? I would suggest that’s your next move, start with 1/4 and 1/2 tone bends and try and copy the action of what you do now. Start small and get a feeling for that movement ie what you are now doing but with a string under your index finger. Doesn’t matter where you do it its the action that counts.

Once you get that vibrato working with your ring finger, just take it to the apex and stop.
There you go, 1/2 tone bend. Wash rinse repeat with small increments - not worrying about the sound ala Chris Liepe - but concentrate on the movement, then slowly get higher until hitting the tone. If that makes sense.

I would also suggest, to transfer that vibrato action into a bend, tune down 1/2 step.
Go Eb and lose some tension. That will make the bends easier and allow you to focus on that rotation.

Hope that helps.

Pondering on the when question. Have some ideas but not easy to articulate. Think of a sentence and inflection.

Cheers

Toby