Improv: what's in a name?

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My goal has been to build a tool kit and hopefully master those musical elements well enough to apply them wherever and whenever I need them, either on the fly or in some preconceived fashion.

Playing/learning by rote can be cool if you really dig something. I’m in this to be creative and express myself, so I usually try a cool riff or section of a track that I like and then find ways to use it elsewhere – again that tool kit principle. Case in point, there’s a particular bend in “Smokestack lightning” that I use in a number of progressions. What I do before and after and when I apply it is up to me.

Improvisation is an amalgamation of what we know and what we are able to explore and discover. Not a thing in the world wrong with having an idea of what to do when the IV or V chord comes around.

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Learn a lick, get it under your fingers, get it in your head. Then find the Unisons. Then find the Octaves. Play it all over. Change the ending to make it a question or throw in some tension. Stop half way through and work back to the start. Then go home and let things settle. Or just leave it hanging out there, with folks wondering, next ?

Do this for all licks. Simples.

:sunglasses:

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Hi Peter being mostly acoustic and fingerpicking, I am bound to learn songs with a particular picking and melody pattern. The only improv happens when I mess up, and I try to dig myself out of a hole whilst playing :wink:. So what I say here below, comes with a jolly big disclaimer - and is more based on what I have seen others do, than my own personal experience.

When we jam together with our Bluesharmonicaplayers, and we have more than 2 guitars playing a blues shuffle pattern, I do decide on the spot how I will play the chord sequence of a song, which is given, and try and find a chord voicing and a rhythm that will complement what the others are doing. Because there are not many options there that is relatively easy, but it is not predetermined. I sometimes may try adding a riff to link the chords together, but it is safer to have that riff committed to memory in advance so as not to throw the groove. I haven’t studied nor agreed in advance with the others. I’ll just find out. As a last resort I will just try to find some right notes, and play a solo line, or some arpeggiating, without much advance thinking about it, and without having a library of licks to help me out. Each time I try that, it will be different, and its not a proper solo, because the acoustic will not cut through two other guitars strumming or a blues harmonica. It just adds a little colour.

Maybe one day, I will be able to play a solo, but I am not consciously studying it, other than having more or less committed the minor pentatonic / blues scale in 3 positions to muscle memory.

I guess if music is like a language, there are different ways to learn it. You can learn it as a baby would, repeating certain words and patterns, and have a response to them, and reacting to that response. You can try and learn it as an adult, from the useful phrases section of your travel guide, and not having had the benefit of the feedback, be in for some rude surprises when after you arrive in the country of destination, attempting to apply your newfound linguistic skills.

What I am trying to say here, is that in learning how to solo in Bluesland, it is probable that you will improvise rather than copy someone else’s solo verbatim. Maybe the solo would be too difficult for your skill level, but you can borrow a part of it, and you fill in the gaps with licks that you do know. Maybe on the other hand, it would be a song that you don’t know, but you still get the solo during a gig - what do you do? I guess improvisation is a part of learning, learning to solo and coming up with your own solo’s to given songs, which you can commit to memory or just coming up with a solo during a jam.

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Like @sclay mentioned, most of us on here would be beginner or intermediates - with some advanced guys that have been playing a long time. Being a learning site catering from absolute beginner, that would be expected, I think. I’ve watched a few of your videos, you’re very good. You’ve been playing guitar for longer than I’ve been alive!

I think that means that what is going to help you progress would be very different than what someone who’s only been playing guitar for 6 months, 1, 2 or 3 years would need doing. I imagine you’re decades beyond encountering techniques for the first time, or struggling to hit the right strings.

Why does Justin teach improvising? I can’t remember if he actually explains it. One reason, I think, is that he wants people to explore the instrument and discover what they can do with it. To get into songwriting, creating our own melodies and songs. The other lessons seem to line up with this (chord explorers, songwriting lessons, etc). It’s surprising that many people if not shown they should explore and create, might not - might not feel they have permission to, or they are “good enough” yet. A while ago I asked my niece who was learning piano to have a jam with me - just create a melody in the key of C and I’d lay down some chords and rhythm. She’d never done anything like that, had only played set pieces!

I found that surprising, but I think it’s common.

For me, so far (with far less experience than you), I’ve found improvising helps me learn more about scales and what can sound good together. I don’t think it has helped me at all with learning techniques - however it helps me with applying them.

You’re more advanced - what you need may be different. I take the approach of giving everything Justin suggests a try for a while, some things I spend more time doing than others.

I’ve done a small amount of transcribing. I found it hard, but has really helped training my ear. I found it really hard to transcribe songs I didn’t know well or didn’t like, and songs I knew well were much, much easier.

From what I understand transcribing trains your ear and allows you to build that connection between what you hear and your fingers better. It’s not going to make your fingers faster or get you playing jazz standards though. I think at your level, progression becomes very specific, so what you focus on is what you’ll get better at.

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I use the grateful dead as an example of my understanding of improv. their songs are all written out in tab and/or standard notation but they never once play them the same way. the lead guitar, the rhythm guitar, the bass, the drums, the piano all go on journeys by themselves within the song and play off each other. so its not just the lead that is improvising, its the entire band. but i think you already know that given your experience so I’m not really sure what your after :thinking:

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As many other have said, to me improvisation is coming with something on the spot.
Otherwise it’s a composition. Nothing wrong woth either, just different things.

Now improvisation may consist of licks put together and filling the blanks in between or something new I suppose.

I think an excellent example of improv is in this video around the 2 minute mark. Just see how Billy Gibbons calls out the guitarists and puts them on the spot really. Amazing. Lots to learn.

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As I stated at the start, “it’s probably just me”, so let’s draw this to some kind of conclusion.

What you described as Grateful Dead improvisation is one extreme but it’s not what @jkahn described. JK uses improvisation to explore the instrument and understand what works and what doesn’t. Grateful Dead did it as it seemed a cool way to play. They are not the same things in my book. And yes it is me because the phrase probably always did have different meanings and it’s quite subtle. Does it matter; no.

Where I’m coming from is, as an experienced player, if someone asks on here for advice on improvising do they mean in the Grateful Dead sense or the JK sense? It would help me to understand but I’ve probably got there now. Actually probably better not to dig myself into any more holes…

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As a further example of improvising, here’s something I’m transcribing at the moment. A masterclass in band dynamics too. If anyone can work out what scale he’s playing please let me know but it isn’t the minor pentatonic. A clue - it’s in D:

PS: I always longed for a beaten-up Strat like that

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Not me as my ears are not really tuned to for this. Anything played at more than snails pace would be a problem to differentiate chords/notes played.

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I mentioned earlier about random songs from obscure German bands and oddly enough one such band came up of all places on a Peter Green Facebook group. Apparently he was influenced by this after he left Fleetwood Mac before he made his first solo album. Wish he’d stuck with the blues.

This was the kind of thing that was seen as cool to “improvise” on when I started out. It’s a bit like the soundscapes of today but over 50 years earlier. According to the comments, no acid was harmed during its making. Enjoy