I have an āaffordableā electro-acoustic guitar LAG T88ACE with preamp and piezo pickup at the bridge. I got the setup done and I really like the guitar.
Sometimes I plug the guitar on my Blackstar tube amp or sometimes I use Fender Mustang Micro phone ampā¦ (both are for the electric, they are not really special acoustic amps). I also got Digitech Trio Plus to mess around and in the future I am going to acquire audio interfaceā¦ all this just for me at my home playing, learningā¦ not for giging.
But I am not so fond of the sound that comes from the pickup. I like the natural guitar sound (unplugged), but with headphones and amp (even on the clean channel) the sound is not to my liking.
Am I right in thinking that this is probably more piezo pickup related, other then that I donāt have dedicated acoustic amp?
And if so - is it worth upgrading pickup system to something else (like not piezo, perhaps mic or some other piezo that is installed on the body, not bridge)? Do I have to also change the preamp in this case?
I can āeasilyā attach (sodder) new pickup to the preamp, if they are compatible. Also removing existing piezo from the bridge is not problematic. But to change the preamp as well - it probably means drilling new hole to the guitar body (because I guess that not all preamps are the same dimensions), which doesnāt feel like a good ideaā¦
What do you guys and gals think?
This is how the preamp looks on my guitar (image is from internet). The 9V battery compartment is located at the bottom of the guitar, together with the output plug.
Some preamps, like in my Maton, combine a piezo with a mic.
indeed, usually itās all different sizes and ways to fit them into your guitar.
I donāt think changing the piezo itself will give oyu the desired effect.
changing the pre-amp ā¦ perhaps a little more but I think the cost isnāt worth it either.
I would try to manipulate the sound
Though, there are some things you can try.
running it through an eq with enough bands to tweak it.
The relation to the amp matters of course. turning up a bit of low-mid (without becoming farty) can helpp round up up. A specific frequency on an EQ can dampen the harsh edge as well.
running it through a (multi)fx unit that support cabinet IRās. last year I experimented with my other (piezo) only guitar and I ran it through a speaker simulation that loaded the profileā¦not of a speaker but of a different guitar. It made my piezeo sound nicer, more natural.
If that is an option for you; Iāll dig up the specifics.
I did my experiment on a MOD Dwarf, which supports loading your own IRās.
Herās the thread that will lead you to the specific IR that was useful for me etc
Sounds like you dig your acoustics unplugged sound to me.
Iām only a home player too. Iāve got electrics and acoustic. As a home player, Iāve tested my acoustic into a regular elec. guitar amp too. It didnāt do much for me either (except feedback since I sit right next to my amps). But, since I have no reason, or need to amplify my acoustic, I just donāt plug it into a amp.
I do however plug my acoustic/elec. into my audio interface though when Iām recording my acoustic, sometimes. I go back and forth as the tones plugged into the interface are different than micing the acoustic. Some folks donāt like their acoustics plugged direct in to a audio interface. Mine seems to sound fine to me either way though.
So, my take is. Play your acoustic as an acoustic. If ya wanna play electric, plug on in. Spend the money on the audio interface. That will open up new horizons for home playing imho.
fwiw, I got my acoustic to play w/o a amp. My goal with acoustic was to play unplugged (outside on my back stoop on a nice day or for grab and go playing). I just inadvertently got a acoustic that was acoustic/elec. I find it very useful to plug in the acoustic when Iām recording. But other than that, I, as a home player, have no particular need to plug in my acoustic.
ymmv.
I was having a similar issue. Enjoy the natural sound of the guitar, but not the piezo when plugged in. I donāt think changing the pickup is going to solve the problem, might make it better but just the piezo is not an ideal system.
I play live in a PA system so not a fan of the exterior mic because of limited mobility, but if you are just recording at home I think the best thing you can do for sound is probably ignore the internal preamp/pickup and run an exterior SM57 or similar. If you want to take it one step further, you can layer the Piezo with the external microphone.
Iāve done quite extensive testing and experimentation with piezo - both on acoustic and electric guitar. Using IRs, different pedals to enhance/improve the tone, DI boxes etc etc. Even a soundhole pickup that blends piezo with a small mic.
My conclusion is that you can get it better with some of these tools - but never as good as the sound of the instrument in the room or, if recording, the instrument captured with even a cheap condenser mic into an audio interface.
So Iāve āgiven upā on achieving good piezo tones, and now look at is as merely an option for amplifying an acoustic in a live playing scenario. And useless for recordingā¦
This has also been the path Iāve taken. Iām a home player so have no need to amplify my acoustic. I like being able to pick up my acoustic and play with no connections, no batteries to charge, cables to connect etc.
My audio interface has a number of uses. If I want to record my acoustic guitar (other than just on my phone) I can do so via a mic into the interface. When I practice with the Yousician app I plug my guitar via a wireless dongle into the interface. My main use however (and this is specific to my setup) is my main device is an iPad and I route the sound into my interface which in turn is connected to my speaker even just for listening to music or watching YouTube - itās more reliable than Bluetooth. An interface might not be so pivotal to other peopleās setups but mine is in use for many hours every day
If that is anything like the body rez in their PlayAcoustic product, it would certainly be a cheaper alternative (and I suspect its the same).
The resonance set up can get pretty close to the natural acoustic sound and there are quite a few settings. My go to for acoustic and vocal OM performances. I have tried creating POD Go presets for my acoustics but the TCHPA would still be my preference. An isolated BodyRez pedal would make a big difference if I did not have the PA.
I missed this question in the OP, but in my opinion it could also very much be because youāre using an amp for an electric guitar!
Electric guitar amps contains speakers that are extremely ācoloringā in terms of their tone. Electric guitar amps are actually made with this in mind, and will sound horrible if played into a PA speaker or other āfull rangeā speaker systems. But the reverse is also true - other types of signal played through an electric guitar amp/speaker will sound quite poor. Probably a lot of the top end will be cut, and mids will be pushed forward.
So it doesnāt work that way that I cut the piezo wire and sodder another pickup type (like mic) on it and keep the preamp? That would be too easy, I guess.
I find that BodyRez pedal interesting and will check out some reviews and demos. Thanks
No, I donāt think itās that easy. Iāve read that some guitarists (Mike Dawes in particular) combine multiple pickup types in an acoustic guitar in part to round out the sound. But doing something like that is a fair bit more complicated. I think I watched an interview where Mike Dawes said he combines the signal from both a piezo and a mic-based pickup into a single signal somewhere. Canāt remember if it was the interview he did with Justin or with someone else where he talked about that.
Then you get setups like what folks like Billy Strings uses. He comes to mind because I just went to his show last night. He has multiple pickup systems in his guitar. One of them looks to be a single coil electric guitar-type pickup that mounts in the sound hole. He has a switch on the body of his guitar where he can swap between that one and whatever other pickup system he uses (itās not visible when heās performing).
All that is way more complicated than Iām ever going to get. I have a strictly acoustic Yamaha and an acoustic-electric Taylor GS Mini. When Iām playing for myself, I almost always just play acoustic. Iāve plugged my Taylor into my audio interface before, but I need to fiddle with some settings. Iāve also just used a condenser mic on it. Iāve got a little Fender Acoustasonic 10 amp and aside from the feedback from being too close to the amp, it sounded pretty good. Iāve plugged my Taylor into my electric amp (a Fender Champion 40) and it sounds a little less good, but I can tweak it enough to at least not sound totally awful to my ears.
I got the pickup in the Taylor just in case I wanted to do open mics at some point. It would give me options for how I wanted to be hooked up.
Iām one of those guys that hates the sound of piezo pickups ā I find it distracting and grating. Iāve tried a lot of potential solutions (preamps, pedals, acoustic amps, and so on). The thing thatās worked the best for me is the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI Preamp. I suggest giving one a try to see if it might work for you.
I have two practice amps; a Fender Champion 20 for my electric and a Fender Acoustisonic 40 for my acoustic. I use a Line 6 Relay G10 wireless system. If I forget to move the connecting cable from one amp to the other when I switch to the acoustic guitar, I know immediately because the acoustic sounds flat and muddy through the Champion compared to how it sounds through the Acoustisonic.
I really encourage you to try an acoustic amp before you start doing major changes to your guitar.
I happen to have one on sale for ā¬45 (EU mainland shipping only though)ā¦
Since I have my Maton and the IR solution with my dwarf for the other guitar, I donāt use it anymore
As said, even on cleanest setting, an electric guitar amp wil have a different ācolorā but on the other hand, Iāve been playing acoustic over the Fender Blues Deluxe as well. takes a bit of EQāing though
@bk2 Bostjan, I can also vouch for that BodyRez pedal improving the sound of my acoustic when recording direct rather than with a mic, or performing at one of the Community virtual OMs.
I have the PlayAcoustic Toby mentioned so also blend in a little reverb and delay.
As to whether it is worth it, that may depend on the use cases. And like many things thereās a line between wants and needs, which you can combine with whether or not you can afford to indulge in such GAS. For playing and singing live I think the PlayAcoustic is a great pedal, though I didnāt need it for the little I play and sing live, either for an OM or to make an AVOYP recording.
@bk2 Here are my thoughts for what they are worth, I would say I am very much a beginner at this. I have a Yamaha acoustic guitar with under saddle piezo pick up with an in built System 66 pre amp and 2i2.
Recording at home
I spent a long time trying to get a decent sound strumming with the guitar plugged in and fiddling with the onboard EQ and eventually gave up. So I now record guitar and vocals with condenser mic or guitar with condenser and vocals with dynamic mic. I am going to try playing fingerstyle with guitar plugged in so that might just be acceptable.
Playing on stage
Used all three options, guitar not plugged in (small venue) guitar plugged into sounds system and guitar picked up with condenser mic. You have to go with whatās available and hope for the best, if you are not bringing your own gear.
In summary for recording at home not worth installing a piezo pick. If you are going to perform on stage then you do need some system to amplify the sound, options by others have been given above.
Just very short: Piezo can sound good too!
I own two acoustics:
a cheaper one and the sound is the typical Piezo sound - itās ok, but not great!
an nicer guitar which I bought used with a better Fishman pickup - and this one sounds fine to me, not far away from a miked sound, but Iām not sure if the Piezo is so good or if they adapted the preamp to that Piezo in a way to hide those characteristics of the Piezo that are annoying to most listeners.
Some guitars (especially more expensive guitars) do come with very high quality systems. For example, I have a Martin OM-35E with the Fishman VT Aura Enhance system. It allows you to blend the basic piezo pickup sound with an impulse response image of the same guitar micād up with pro mics in a studio. Itās basically doing the same thing that the Aura Spectrum DI Preamp pedal I posted about earlier offers, but itās on-board the guitar and limited to only a single impulse response image (but a single image of the same guitar model, so itās the image you want anyway). If have a guitar that has this kind of system on-board I think youāre golden and donāt need additional preamps, et cetera.
The benefit of the Aura Spectrum DI Preamp is that itās a pedal that will work with any guitar you can plug in. You choose the impulse response image that is closest to your guitar (or you can load/create a custom image to use). If you donāt happen to have a guitar that already has such a system on-board, the pedal is the next best option (in my opinion).
Thanks, Jason,
for that insight!
my guitar is actually only half decent and a bit older (like 2010-2015?) and the preamp only in the medium range. I looked at infos on it, but that pickup/preamp model doesnāt exist anymore. But still the sound is pretty good. I guess before they implemented that IR stuff, they probably just modified the frequency response.
@bk2 Probably you looked for further info in the meantime, but I found that demo of a definitely not so great sounding piezo pickup compared to it after running it through an IR (a free one that you could use with a plugin in your DAW) pretty convincing: https://youtu.be/wI_CtgKcxrg?feature=shared
