Full disclosure… @rorystrat@Lisa_S@DavidP@Socio … I have not read all your replies that came in while I was busy trying to take pictures what of what it looks like when I’m naturally fretting the Mini-F, Mini-F with thumbover ( I can just about do it) and the F- Barre.
I will read your posts after posting the pictures (hope that helps…). But for now I already want to say many thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.
While I’m short, I do have proportianally long fingers. Clearly longer than those of my husband who is taller than me.
I am very sure that over the years on and off playing I have acquired many a bad habit. That’s one of the major reasons why I want to add in person lessons to JG.
When taking those pictures I made sure that all the strings rang out clearly and correctly when I grabbed my phone. Might well be however that some positioning accidentally changed while taking the pictures…
Justin spends some time specifically on wrist position here:
tl;dr – a slight bend at the wrist is normal, but you don’t want to have too much. FWIW, although I had been playing for years (perpetual strummer) before finding Justin, I did not know this and found it very helpful.
So there’s definitely an angle between arm and wrist, too. But that’s how it works for me and luckily without any pain in the wrist that I could recall from learning barre chords. I tend to get a sore muscle between thumb and first finger, though.
It’s definitely a good idea to take this to 1:1 lessons and just experiment a little with hand position. The most important thing for all of us is not to injure ourselves (i.e. carpal tunnel syndrome) and avoid pain that keeps us from playing. How that is achieved really depends on our individual anatomy, I guess.
Hi Nicole, I also had some wrist problems, to be honest I still have, when practicing barre chords (or power chords) excessively. My wrist angle, depending on the fret, is visible, but not too bad, I would say, but I experience hand fatigue and soreness, if I do a lot of them. I realized, I‘m pressing much too hard with my index and hold against with my thumb, which causes uncomfortable tension in my whole hand, including wrist.
Concerning the discussion about the wrist angle, I add a photo from Justin‘s old intermediate course book, where he introduces E-shape barre chords (I hope, I’m allowed to do this, if not, mods please feel free to delete). He clearly advises not to bend the wrist too much. (Although, when I analyze videos of top players, they seem to do it as well at times )
Thank you soooooooo much Lisa for taking the effort to take pictures for me
Based on the angle I can see in your pictures I’m not too dramatically off. It might simply be overexertion as well. Going from no playing for weeks to playing to more than an hour per day and on that F-barre breakthrough day probably five hours… it’s not bad pain or anything, it might simply be the guitar equivalent to “Muskelkater” in the end. I will definitely monitor this though.
Thank you so much as well, Andrea. I think what you describe above is very likely the reason. I don’t bend my wrist as badly as shown in the picture ( I hope at least). In the video David shared, Justin bends wrist as well a bit.
So very, very, highly likely I’m way too tense and use way too much force and pressure… Since I somehow expect I need to do that…
I suppose that top players are so well trained that despite bending their wrista they do only need very little force
Setting a target start date for Grade 3 was long overdue. I decided that 1.3.25 appears to be a reasonable choice. Setting this date, I will have spent a bit more than a year in Grade 2 - even if the weeks of not playing will have to be subtracted. Then again these lost hours will be compensated by the additional time I have for practicing during my summer vacation.
How can I meet my planned Grade 3 target start date?
By coming up with a time schedule that is strict enough, yet not too restrictive.
Generally the idea is that I have three weeks for focussing on each module. During each module’s last practice week, I will have to be especially honest and critical with myself and write down the issues that are most problematic for me in the respective module(s).
I will then concentrate on these problem cases in the next phase.
This will be followed by a Grade 2 song consolidation phase (these are the songs that Justin suggests playing during grade 2, not the ones that I actually want to play and will be working on anyway if I can find the additional time). Here, the idea is that having focussed on issues that are especially difficult for me earlier, these songs should now sound better than before.
It’s difficult to tell. I do hope that I will be able to practice according to the plan laid out above, it’s general and yet specific enough. Still, I do have to be aware that life has a habit of sabotaging the best laid plans and that I will need to modify the plan accordingly.
I apologies if my anatomy causes me to fly in the face of Justin’s teachings. In the image in the correct position he is barring with only half his index finger bent at the knuckle. I cannot achieve a full barre with just half my short fat index finger. Half my finger will only barre 4 strings. So to get a full barre I have to resort to position X. Perhaps @Richard_close2u could advise if many students can actually play a barre chord with half their index finger.
Interestingly Nicole @JokuMuu, you know the mini-F with the thumb over which is what I prefer for the “E shape” chord. Here is Justin using it extensively in a Grade 7 song lesson:
You seem to fret (pun intended) over your techniques but that one is pretty advanced.
Edit: This is a still from that Jimi lesson and see how far the wrist is bent when he goes for an F shape barre chord! So in practice, when actually playing, it proves hard to stick to the rules.
I think, we have established that the problems I was experiencing were most probably simply a case of overpracticing. It’s much better now and I can play F-barre without my wrist begging me to stop right here and now.
I am really happy that I have received so much help. And of course there will be different experiences based on different anatomies etc. So I think it’s all good in the end?
I made a similar observation when watching the video, David had shared yesterday. I guess the most important point really is to be observant to what causes too much strain and what doesn’t. I often tend to ignore pain, so it’s good that this became an issue at this stage.
I actually have to check how much of my first finger I use for barring. With the small A-barre chord, I seem to be one of those people where the knuckle will muting the high e-string, while muting E with my thumb … That’s the Gretsch however, didn’t test with acoustic yet.
Such a beautiful song I haven’t even tried changing to the thumbover-F… Say… I might consider taken a serious look at this video again in five years
Five years! That’s longer than Jimi Hendrix career!
Joking aside, us “accomplished” players (and I don’t know how many there are here) have been admonished recently elsewhere on the forum for giving advice that contradicts Justin’s. In showing the examples I attempted to prove that Justin contradicts his own advice in practice, in this instance on wrist position.
I have played Barre chords for over 50 years with my bent wrist and never had any pain. And I too always mute the top E with the “A” shape. I can’t get the C Shape Barre chord with my fingers. As you develop along the learning journey and move onto triads etc. you realise that chords are just 3 notes and the other notes are just duplicates. So missing the odd note in a chord is not a problem.
And on the subject of advancing lessons, I’m impressed with your planning Nicole but surprised at the length of time you have given yourself to accomplish the next Grade. There are a lot of time consuming things in JG that may prove of less use longer term. For example, in Grade 1 there’s Anchor Fingers; what’s that all about - never reappears! There I go again contradicting Justin -
Appreciate all your inputs, Peter. I guess when it comes to contradicting Justin, he’d probably be the first to admit that what he teaches is not the only but can be considered a generally effective way based on his years of experience. We do need to be cautious with people working through the first few grades (I think) in terms of introducing different ideas and ways. It could be confusing.
As for Anchor Fingers, my understanding (could be wrong) is that it is specifically a way to help those just learning A D E in changing between the chords. Not necessarily something to learn for lifetime usage. That said, I think being mindful of when a finger stays on the same note when changing to a new chord and not automatically lifting the finger could be useful, is that then an Anchor Finger?
Thanks David @DavidP for the heads up… And yes I must be more mindful of not confusing people in the earlier grades. (The higher grades are actually quite a lonely place to hang out!)
I really don’t want to usurp Justin’s method which is time proven. I’ll shut up now. Peter
I can imagine, Peter, the majority being early stage learners or folks like me that got through a version of the early grades and haven’t progressed much beyond it.
I know and have no doubt. Please don’t consider this a subtle (or not subtle) way of a Mod wanting you to share less.
Your comments have been helpful here.
@JokuMuu Nicole, apologies for the public side-bar.
) for reference:
How that is achieved really depends on our individual anatomy, I guess.
)
Enjoy your Muskelkater, it’s a medal well earned. 
