I think I understand…
Much appreciated Rick
I think the confusion for me is the above the root shapes.
A,E and D
The fingering starts with the middle finger on the root and moving it down 3 frets doesn’t seem to work in the same way as the simpler looking pentatonic scales.
Eg: if I play pattern 1 of the major scale starting on the 6th string 3rd fret ( G major scale)
Then move the pattern 3 frets up toward the sound hole I thought I would be playing the G natural minor scale but I seem to run out of fingers.
Let’s start with C major scale 8th fret G shape.
This way you can move both ways.
First off you said you know the CAGED system so I’m assuming
The G shape major scale starts with the root note under pinky
E string and the goes to the A string 5th fret.
If you start the same scale pattern with your index finger on the
Note A (5th Fret) you are now playing A natural minor.
A is relative minor to C
Now put you index finger on the C (8th fret) and play the same
pattern as you did for Am. You are now playing C natural minor.
Now play the same patten but start with the root note under
your pinky this is Eb Major. Cm is relative minor the Eb.
You are moving from the G shape for Major and E shape for minor.
Same Notes different Root.
You are also switching from Relative minor Am(going down the neck)
To parallel minor going up the neck Cm. When I learnt this it was
called Front door back door. If you start with the index finger all
the note are forward of the root. If you start with the pinky all
the notes are behind the Root note.
Thanks very much for your time on this Rick
Really appreciate it.
I will endeavour to get it clear in my head.
If you cross reference Rick’s front door back door analogy with the two diagrams I posted and what I said about where you launch from. The top diagram would mean starting with your index finger on the root and the bottom one starting with your pinkie. Its all about the root.
Just been playing around with this idea Rick.
It’s all falling into place.
Just wondering…you said the G shape Is movable both ways, appears to be the same for the C shape major scale pattern.
With pattern 1 of the major scale I’ve found the way to move it is to start on the octave with my first finger.
Eg: pattern 1 A major scale my pinky lands on the octave, 4th string 7th Fret, the note A. If I replace my pinky with my index finger and continue the same pattern I’m playing the A minor scale… I think?
All of the 5 patterns are movable. I think you miss understood me. I used the C major scale
G shape (pattern 5) so you can move your hand both ways with out running out of frets.
You can do the pinky to index trick with every pattern they all link together. Some are easier
than others because the have the same shape.
E shape minor and G shape Major
D shape minor and E shape Major
C shape minor and D shape Major
A shape minor and C shape Major
G shape minor and A shape Major
There are only 5 shapes for both the Major and minor scales using the CAGED system
The only thing that changes is where the root note is.
Every Major scale has a Root note that will land under your pinky. If you play that exact same
pattern but start with your index finger on the same string 3 frets down you are now playing
the Relative minor.
No you’re just continuing the next pattern of the A major. And you’ll need to adjust for the B string.
Jason you’ve just discovered the “never lost scale”. When you go as far as you can on the e string go back down that shape towards the E string until you hit the lowest root. Switch index for pinkie and start again. Tip - rather than put your pinkie on the octave root slide into it with the index and you are ready to go on the next pattern.
Toby you need to explain the “never lost scale” is one internet teachers explanation for
“Every pattern links to the next”. Others call it scale extensions.
Jason take what I say with a pinch of salt. Rick defines more eloquently what I said. But as you have found each root is a link to the patterns either side of it. And as the CAGED system shows they are all linked up and down the neck
Jason - I fast tracked my topic and it is now here.
I hope it provides some of what you are looking for.
Ironically enough, he is also called Stitch.
I’ve got it now
It finally makes sense.
I think I’m able to work out every parallel and relative minor key from the major scale shapes.
Sorry it took a while. I know I can be hard work
I think I’ve finally got it
That’s fantastic Richard.
Massive thanks for that.
I’ll get stuck in right now
Actually he calls himself Stich
a measured part of something written especially in verse
I’ve been asked more than one if I was him and no I’m not.
What’s the odd T amongst friends
Ah yes, of course, he has just the one t in his name.