Mic advice

Gear & Tools Talk đź’» Hardware, Software & Recording
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I bought a mic but think I need another…

I actually bought a Shure SM57 LC mic to record at the amp of my guitar. Then I saw that my Focusrite would take the guitar feed directly, so tried to sing with the Shure mic. It’s not super sensitive at any distance and some folks have said that recording the guitar direct isn’t great anyway. So if I go back to my original thought and record the guitar at the amp using the Shure SM57 - what would people recommend as a voice mic?

I have an Audio-Technica AT2020 condenser mic, but it’s USB so won’t connect to the Focusrite, I think?

I’m not going to be recording anything fancy, it’s only for me. What quality of mic should I get? Condensor or Dynamic? Amazon basic or Shure?

Advice from those of you actually doing this stuff would be appreciated :slight_smile:

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Hi Scott you should be able to do both my friend the 57 will still let you sing maybe put a pop shield in front of it and the guitar will definitely play through the Focusrite, it just depends how and what you are using Scott

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If you mean the Audio-Technica AT2020USB+ then, correct, you cannot connect it to an audio interface. It has it’s own built-in audio interface.

If you are looking to record vocals and guitar at the same time, there are ways to use two audio interfaces at the same time, but they tend to be tricky and problematic, which is one reason I recommend people to avoid USB-only mics.

If you are looking to record guitar and mic separately, it’s entirely possible and straightforward with what you have: just select the Focusrite input when you are recording guitar, and the Audio-Technica when you are recording voice.

If you are talking about an acoustic guitar with a pickup of some sort, then recording direct this way is usually fine, although many people don’t like the sound of onboard pickups, especially the commonly used piezo ones.

If you are talking about electric guitar then, no, it’s not what you want to do unless you have some sort of software amp simulation. A huge part (probably the majority) of an electric guitar’s tone comes from the amp, so if you don’t use an amp, it won’t sound right.

The options you have are:

  1. Record the amp with a mic - this is the “old-school” approach that they have used in recording studios for decades mainly because, until recently, there was no other way to do it. But it can be tricky to do well, especially in a domestic setting and, these days, we have other ways to do it.

  2. Record directly into the audio interface, and use software amp simulation to make it sound right - tools like Amplitube, Guitar Rig, Tonelib GFX, etc. can be used

  3. If your guitar amp has a line output, you can connect this to the input of the Focusrite and record that way. This should give you a guitar amp tone. note that these line outputs are usually emulated (modelled) in some way, so they sometimes won’t sound like the amp does in the room.

  4. If you have a modern modelling amp with a USB output, you can usually plug that in and record directly from it. Modern amps like the Mustang, Katana, and Spark have this and sound great (in some cases better than the amp in the room does - cough Spark 40). The downside of this is the amp appears as a separate audio device which makes it tricky to record the amp and vocals at the same time.

Cheers,

Keith

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OK, thanks, that all makes sense. I’m learning every post here, it’s great!

I think I’ll get a cheaper vocal mike - Behringer do some and I love their pedals - and try that way first, using the 57 to record at the amp. I have a Fender Champion 20 amp, so nothing too fancy. I may investigate software amp simulation if I get enough use out of what I already have.

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Hey Scott–you’re a couple months ahead of me. I’m interested in upping (beginning?) my voice game, and have Justin’s voice and ear training queued to help me in my inclined journey.

To that end, I too want a mic that isn’t fussy (nor horrifically expensive), but gives a rendition of my voice reasonably close to what others hear (not as I “hear” it through all the labyrinthine pathways through which sound travels in my body). I too have a Scarlet Solo going into some, as yet not codified, piece of software–@majik (a mage of sounds digital) has a number of knowledgeable posts I plan to digest. Part of this quest is practical, part just 'cause I like messing around with challenges that have a non-linear resolution.

I’m curious to follow you on your quest. If you could keep the group updated on your findings I suspect more than I would be appreciative of your efforts! :grinning:

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Hi - happy to share my findings. Honestly can’t sing for toffee but recently stumbled across a YouTube guitar channel from a US based guitar shop where the guy does hundreds of simplified covers and has a really average voice. And the thing is, he doesn’t care, just ploughs on a bit tonelessly but plays the songs. I figured I probably could do that!!! It’s inspiring in an odd kinda way - @MunsonCovers

So just ordered a cheap mic figuring, like with the Behringer pedals, if I really get use out of it I can upgrade: Behringer XM8500 – Thomann United Kingdom

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Scott you should be happy with the XM8500. I bought one from Thomann several years ago when I first started recording. Pretty solid and reliable. Used it for a few years before I upgraded to a Shure SM57LC. Just remember as with all Dynamics you need to get up close and personal. But a great starter mic and cheap as chips even nowadays ! :+1:

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I am a big fan of Steave Albani and a lot of the tricks he used on how he did this. I know its not the standard anymore but it gets a good sound.

@Majik
@TheMadman_tobyjenner

I have a question for you. If I got this kit will this record an Acoustic ok also. I am talking about a starter. I would obviously perfer a shure 57 for my acoustic and a 58 for vocal (or 2 57s) but I just cant swing this right now but for about $33 usd, I can get 3 of these sans cables at the link and that would at least get me in the game until I am done paying my kids tuition, if you know what I mean. If i got the extea i could hang it close to the acoustic and one for vocals and boom i am set. That would be nice.

As far as vocals. I share the issues with the others. Right now I cant even record songs with me singing over electric because my voice is drowned out by the loud amp. I end up having to scream and you know what that does to the vocals.
I am still doing direct record from a cell and building up my gear. But I really want to get a vocal mic. I do have an amp that would be dedicated for that and a boom mic stand.

Maybe this is too many questions, I am not trying to hijack anyone thread. Sorry @scottasaigon

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I wouldn’t generally recommend an SM57 for acoustic guitar, but it can be made to work.

As @TheMadman_tobyjenner points out, with dynamic mics like the SM57, SM58 and XM5800 you have to get the mic pretty close to the sound source to get a decent signal.

This is why they are so often used as stage mics, because they reject a lot of ambient and off-axis sound, so singers don’t get so much feedback. They don’t tend to be used as much as studio mics for singers.

Where they are used a lot in studios is for micing up guitar amps, because they can be placed close and the amp turned up loud without damaging the mic.

For studio work for recording acoustic guitars and vocals, it’s more common to use condenser mics, like the Shure SM81, or ribbon mics like the Beyerdynamic M160. These are more sensitive and capture a wider range of frequencies.

But beggars can’t be choosers and we aren’t all well-funded studios. Another factor in a home environment is we don’t have the acoustic treatment a studio has, so having sensitive microphones can result in picking up noise from traffic, air-conditioning, and so on.

I think for micing up guitar cabs, you can’t go too far wrong with the Behringer XM8500. These can also be used as vocal mics as long as you, as @TheMadman_tobyjenner said, get “up close and personal” with them.

For recording acoustic guitar, they are far from ideal, but it can be done by getting the mic nice and close. You will need to invest in some appropriate mic stands as well as cables.

Ideally, you want a mic stand with an extending boom arm for acoustic guitar recording, so you can place the mic nice and close. You might be able to get away with a simple table-top stand, but I think getting the guitar close enough whilst still being comfortable to play could be challenging.

Personally, if you are looking at an SM57/58 (or XM8500, etc.), I would recommend pairing it with a condenser mic, rather than another SM57/58 especially if you are recording acoustic guitar. If you only have two mics, then you should aim for them to be different. Two mics which are, effectively, the same model (and both dynamic) will be quite limiting.

As I said, the SM57/58 or a similar model (like the XM8500) will work great for micing a fairly loud guitar cabinet, but for vocals and acoustic guitar, something like the Lewitt LCT 240 PRO would be better, and is a good example of a decent condenser mic for not too much money.

Cheers,

Keith

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I would add following Keith’s comments, if I recording acoustic via a mic, I use a condenser. Again a very old T-Bone SC300 from Thomann and a Mackie EM 91C. I use the dynamic for vocal recording or JGC OM performances, to reduce guitar bleed.

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Thanks Majik

Very nice and informative detailed answer. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that.
Boy it always come back to a condenser mic. This is what I keep reading. Well it is, what it is, right? One of the very first things I did was, get a solid and strong boom mic stand. I did it not just to hold a mic but for everything. I had one way back when I was playing trumpet in a ska band in the 90s and they are just so invaluable. I also Have a smaller attachment arm you can clamp on lower that for secondary instruments or even other items.

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So maybe for now the XM8500s and I can test the waters. I see the point of not needing multiple mics of the same type. I don’t have a back up band so, no real need to outfit a bunch of imaginary singers for a stage show. Then a Condenser mic when I can drop the funds.

Honestly I dont mind getting close to the mic. Makes me feel like a rock star :man_singer:t3:

:smile: :rofl:

Thank you Majik
:pray:

Oh cool, I will keep an eye out for one of them. Your stuff sounds great, i have heard a good bit of it since i started. And I have a line of a ton of used equipment and I am solid with electronics. I am always on the lookout for broken and easily fixable gear. I would not mind trying to swap out a diaphragm either. I built both my electrics from trashed unwanted relics.

Thanks Toby.

:pray::metal:t2:

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@scottasaigon Are you on Apple?
I haven’t experience with that as I’m on WIndows, but recently read that the Apple OS could handle more than one audio device at the same time, so your interface + your AT2020 should be possible. On Windows, I read that ASIO4ALL would allow that too, but may not work perfectly unfortunately. Didn’t try it yet, but I was (and am still) interested in using more than one interface at the time.
Sorry this isn’t regarding your mic topic, but your initial problem.

All the best, Dominique

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It’s all fascinating stuff. Hijack away @Ontime ! :laughing:

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Thanks Dominique. Yes, I’m using Apple. Currently trying to figure stuff out . I’m ordering a cheaper Behringer mic just to see how that works. I’m also thinking of using Garageband instead of the one that came with Focusrite. It’ll suit mu needs for now, I think.

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I suggest you should. As I said in another thread:

Cheers,

Keith

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