Hi Richard,
I was practicing triad grips on strings 1, 2 & 3 today. I was playing a 1-6-4-5 progression in the key of G (G Em C D). I noticed when going from Em using grip 2 to C using grip 3, I only had to move the finger on the G string up a fret to make the chord change.
That got me thinking and I “discovered” that if you flatten the root of a major triad you get a minor triad whose root note is the third of the major you started with. For example, flatten the root of a C major and you get an Em. F becomes Am.
These major/minor pairs also have two notes in common. So are these minor triads a different type of relative minor? Or is my “discovery” purely academic and useless in the real world?
The attached table shows the major vs relative minor relationship you mentioned on the right hand side, and the major/minor relationship I “discovered” on the left hand side.
@jacksprat
Oh yes, wow, I love it. Making these sorts of discoveries all by yourself is fantastic and so satisfying. I love how you took the germ of an idea and extended it also. You will find that from one starting position you can make three triads by altering just one note. And this does allow you to play, for example a I, vi, IV, V prgreession, with virtually no lateral movement along the neck.
If you like that you may like this too. I took your key of A major, and what a good choice it was. I started at the lowest possible triad position for the tonic triad of A major. then, by raising just one note of successive triads (the 3rd or the 5th) could map out the entire set of diatonic chords along the neck. They do not follow the sequential diatonic order of I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii. They do make their own sequence which eventually repeats. The sequence repeats in the triads and, eventually, when you reach far enough along the neck to return to the starting triad shape, the sequence repeats in the shapes too.
Great. I’ve been practicing triad grips using two methods. One is aiming for minimum movement of the fretting hand. The other is to try and move my hand as much as possible between each chord while changing the chord grip. The former targets efficiency, and I guess is the method I will eventually settle on when playing. The latter is good for ‘breaking out of the box’ and moving to another part of the neck.
I’ve printed it out and will have a closer look at it tonight. Thanks for going to all that trouble.
Getting back into random playing at the moment and your diagrams provided a pleasant meander up the fretboard. A bit a la Chuck, with no particular place to go. Then as usual the cogs started whirring and I tried replicating your one note method across D G B and quickly gave up.
Intrigued, this morning I went back this time visited A D G and found I good locate the diatonic A Major triads by moving a single note (again note in the I ii iii IV V vi viio order)
Not as neat as the above diagram so a explainer was added.
Given that the A D G “shapes” are transferable to E A D logic tells me, that the “move one note” process would work their - without the need to map it all out.
Am I right in my assumption that this “trick” cannot be applied to triads on D G B or am I missing something ?
Will now explore this on a vertical plane. I see I can go from A to F#m to D going down 1 string and moving one note, using 3rd, 4th and 5th string roots. Lets see where we can go from there.
Is anybody else in the strange situation I am? I have played guitar (not very well) for a while- so I’m now returning to the guitar to learn what I didn’t do in the first place. That’s why I’m doing the theory course. Anyhow, I have found it fine to learn the positions and grips for the the triads . . . but, when Justin says ‘have some fun, find some songs with Triads in them’. does he just mean, find a song with some chords and play the triad versions of them?
I have found over the last couple of months I am not really interested in learning songs . . . it’s strange I can’t quite work out why. I’ve learned a few different little picking patterns, various licks etc, but i feel as if I now started learning a song on my own, i’d be back to being just an average strummer, even if I was using triads.
Am I overthinking this? Any comments gratefully received. Cheers
I suppose it comes down to why you’te playing the guitar. For many its learning songs, for some its composing and singing, for others its doing their own thing, improvising over some backing tracks etc. Often its a combination of all of these things.
Having said that, you have to ask yourself why are you learning, in this instance triads, if not to utilise them in songs, whether it be others’ songs, or your own. Otherwise its just an intellectual exercise.
Triads are absolutely everywhere in songs, and not just the strummy strummy variety. They are also a big part if lead playing as well. Enormousy useful, and versatile little gems.
A couple of songs that come to mind that use triads extensively, and are really fun to play, are Jack and Dianne, and Listen To The Music. Thousands of others. Plus as you said, you can play triads against another guitar part, which can sound pretty awesome.
And I think with triads as with anything, its in the musical application where the real learning, development, and fun happens.
I wouldn’t stress about it Paul. I’ve never been interested in learning whole songs. There’s quite a few songs I’ve learned the intro to, but rarely the whole song. I have no ambition to play the guitar around a campfire for my friends, so I don’t see the point in learning a whole song. I like improvising and that’s where I’m focussing my energy.
It’s up to you to decide how to use triads, whether to play legit songs with them, to use them for comping or to play them randomly and then realize you have something like a song coming together. They are really versatile. You may want to check this out:
Basically, yes. Triads make for a great 2nd guitar part, adding harmonic layers and textures.
Say what?
My mantra: learn songs, learn songs, learn songs.
Why do you not want to learn and play songs? If your interest in in writing songs then learning songs will make you a better writer. If your interest is in playing lead guitar and improvisation then learning songs will help you better understand harmonic movement, rhythmic groove and melodic feel.
I hear y’all. I guess I’m in a bit of a confused state, becuase whenever I pick up my guitar I want to work on what I’m learning, I guess the trick is make the songs I learn relevant to what I’m actually working on in the course.
I went to see a great Zydeco band yesterday and from my 2 row seat could really see how the guitarist was using triads, not just for chords but for his mini lead licks.
I’ll just have to try to stop learning everything at once I guess. cheers
Thanks Shane, I appreciate your input. As you may see from my answer to @Richard_close2u Richard_close2u below, I am starting to get my head around it.
I seem to be working on this theory course as I’m simultaneously learning some fingerstyle tunes and trying to improve my Travis picking, as well as going through extensive ‘learn the entire fretboard’ exercises. So maybe I’m trying to do too much. I will re focus. Meanwhile, thanks so much for your advice, much appreciated.
Thanks @jacksprat good to hear. As I’m not really a singer, I would rather learn tunes that mean something without words, so I’m doing a lot of fingerstyle stuff as well as learning various solos and licks. I do see the relevance of triads, and therefore spend a lot of time with random note generators finding the various triads. Hell, maybe I should learn to sing. Thanks again mate.
The 3 major triad grips for strings one, two and three are (logically enough) labeled 1, 2 and 3. But that logic doesn’t work on the other 3-string sets. Is there another correlation between the root notes and the grips for these other string groups? (Or I should just not over-think and just learn them?)
The labels are completely irrelevant. You just need to know which is the root note for each shape on each string set.
Oh, and I found some of the shapes nearly impossible to play, so I don’t play them. There are SO many options that learning them all doesn’t seem necessary to me. In fact, there is one guitar training method which advocates learning only three triad shapes- those with the root on the middle string. I think that’s the direction I’m heading.
The triads are all fragments of CAGED chords (think barre chords). More specifically, they are fragments of E-shape, A-shape and D-shape or C-shape CAGED chords.
They derive from A-shape, E-shape and C-shape respectively.
Numbering the triad shapes might be helpful but does not add to understanding. Plus, there is no ‘first’ triad as they simply follow along from one another all the way along the fretboard and the first available triad shape is wholly determined by the string sets and the key.
