One quickly answer is the 7th notes shown in chords at the start are all wrong.
E7 referrers to E dominant 7 and dom 7s have a flat 7 those chords are all written with a natural which makes them Maj7, completely different sound. Each of those notes need to dropped a semi tone.
Hello Randy,
In addition to @TheMadman_tobyjenner correct observation that the 7ths are in fact b7s; the other thing to note is a traditional Blues 145 progression is not a diatonic chord progression.
ie. The three chords, E7, A7, and B7 do not all ābelongā to the key of E. In fact, only the V chord, B7 does.
The E7 is derived from the key of A Major
The A7 is derived from the key of D major
The B7 is derived from the key of E Major.
Cheers, Shane
Another key point: there is no rule that says the notes played must be chord tones.
Some will generally be chord tones, but many wonāt. The others will often be from the parent scale (E major in this case), but there could well be additional notes. In this specific case, a blues piece, you will find the minor third of the scale that corresponds to the chord being played, which is neither a chord tone nor from E major (the notes G, C and D). Also, you find some extra notes in the 3-note chromatic runs, for example the BāA#āA in bar 21 and the AāA#āB sequences in bar 13.
You are tangling quite a number of things up and causing confusion to yourself as a result.
It is hard to know how best to advise without knowing what you know and how far back to take it.
Have you studied any music theory?
Have you studied any blues lead / rhythm guitar?
If yes to both, have you come to recognise that the blues does not follow strict musical theory and ārulesā?
I know a lot about the notes and all the different keys and I understand all the modes and how they work. I do not have a lot of experience with understanding blues. In this music that I attached the E and A are not 7th chords in the key of E, only the fifth is a 7th chord. I now understand that the E7 is from the key of A and the A7 is from the key of D. Now Iām thinking I have to look at the key of A and see what notes it has and look at the key of D and see what notes it has and then maybe I will better understand why they used the notes that they did in this piece of music. I have not done that yet, but I intend to. Let me know what else Iām missing. The way I navigate the fret board using numbers , should I look at the B7 chord in which the root of that chord is the B note and number it 5 which is mixolian mode and go through the scale, 5671234 (5 7 2 being the triad and 4 being the 7th) ??? Thanks for your help. P.s. if it makes sense, and you understand, calling the B7 The five note, what numbers should I call the A7 and B7 should I start those scales at one?
Thanks for clarifying that - it will help you ā¦ and yet the classic music theory also wonāt help you. Bizarrely.
Bear with me.
That is correct for all major keys. Strictly speaking, it is only the V chord that extends to become a dominant 7.
BUT blues is different.
All chords are played as dominant 7 (or extensions of those, such as 9, 13ths etc).
Not in blues. If the blues is in E, E7 is the tonic chord. And it proudly breaks the rules of classic music theory. It should not . can not be a tonic and a dominant 7 simultaneously. But it is.
Not in blues. This is the IV chord - also breaking the rules.
Categorically no.
You are looking at a piece of blues music that is in the key of E.
Donāt. It doesnāt help understand this piece of other blues pieces.
Yes, B7 is the V chord (notice that I use Roman numerals).
Donāt think modes.
The 5 chord not the 5 note.
E7 = 1
A7 = 4
B7 = 5
| E7 | A7 | E7 | E7 |
| E7 | E7 | A7 | A7 |
| B7 | A7 | E7 | B7 |
| I | IV | I | I |
| I | I | IV | IV |
| V | IV | I | V |
No.
The scale to start with a work at and not venture from until you really get to grips with how blues work is the minor pentatonic scale.
For a blues in E, the E minor pentatonic.
And just one pattern in one location of the fretboard.
One lick.
Narrow your focus down to a tiny piece of something you can work with and build from.
BLUES RULES
Blues breaks all conventions - it has major 3rd harmony (all dominant 7 chords) clashing against minor 3rd melody (using minor pentatonic over the top). It is this clash, this friction, this tension, that makes the blues sound like blues.
I highly recommend you start with Justinās blues lessons and work slowly through. https://www.justinguitar.com/modules/essential-blues-lead-guitar
He teaches them in the key of A.
A7 = 1
D7 = 4
E7 = 5
A minor pentatonic.
And perhaps use this topic in conjunction as you go. First Steps in Blues Improvisation using Minor Pentatonic Scale Pattern 1
Hi Richard, really appreciate the help.
on the music sheet it says right on the music E7 A7 B7 throughout the sheet, I am not sure why you are saying that the E and A are not 7th chords.
Also ā¦ I think you are saying that the chords of the back track would be the E7 A7 B7 chords and the notes they offering to solo over those chords are from the minor pentatonic scale ā¦ so if you look at the fret diagram I included the way I follow numbers not patterns ā¦ would the scales on all the chords all start as 6 and the scale would be 671 34 (eliminating the 4th and 7th note from the scale). Are the notes in the following chords E: E G# B D# and A: A C# E G# and B: B D# F# A# . Let me know Thanks Is there any way you might have a few minutes for a phone conversation?
I said the opposite.
Traditional mtheory says E and A can not / will not be E7 and A7 chords in the key of E.
Blues breaks the rules.
They are (nearly always) played as dominant 7 chords in blues.
That neck fiagram is incorrect and not relevant to thos context. You would be best to ignore it. It is not helping.
This is very unclear Iām afraid.
E minor pentatonic scale:
E, G, A, B, D
1, b3, 4, 5, b7
No.
E7 ā E G# B D
A7 ā A C# E G
B7 ā B D# F# A
There is no key that has E7 A7 and B7 in it. Check this table
The mixolydian scale is 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7. The IFR approach is to say that the mixolydian scale is 5 6 7 1 2 3 4. They are the same thing!! IFR is trying to simplify improvising by teaching you to understand that playing the major scale notes 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 is the same as playing the intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1 so long as you start on the same note for each sequence. He is trying to simplify modes. If you can play 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 then you can play the major scale. So now if you play 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 then you play the minor scale.
The E7 A7 B7 is throwing a spanner in the works. Is this exercise in David Reedās book? I have the book. Which lesson are you attempting from the book?
Hi Matt, this peace of music is Justins end of grade 3 video called boom bass with licks. I have been studying IFR for years and have such a good grasp of it. But when ever I am trying to explain myself talking about calling a root note like the E in the E7 chord and say can I call it 5 and play the notes 5671234 or pentatonic 56723 they dont get it. I dont know yet wether I am ahead of the game or not have spending so much time knowing the fretboard up and down as long as I know what number I am on. I have emailed David Reed and he is helpful but not so much. Is there any way I can have a phone converstation with you at your convenience. Have you taken the IFR course, did you take his chord melody course as I did. Let me know if theres any way we can talk for a few minutes. thanks
True.
Except in the blues.
To repeat ā¦
Blues breaks the rules.
E7 is the tonic chord (I)
A7 is the sub-dominant chord (IV)
B7 is the dominant chord (V)
You need to set traditional rules of music theory aside. This is blues music.
E7 isnāt coming from another key. It is the tonic. Yes, as an extension chord, it contains a b7 and as a tonic I chord it should not. It should contain a major 7 and be an Emaj7 chord.
But it isnāt. It is E7.
It is the blues.
No musician anywhere analyses and thinks about the I, IV, V chords of a 12-bar blues and thinks to themself, this isva non-diatonic progression so I need to play different scales over every chord.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
Can you name any blues player - and link to an example - doing this?
I had to look up IFR.
Improvise For Real.
A subscription course costing at least 150 bucks. A new, revolutionary system for learning guitar.
Really? Thatās the method?
Intervalically correct but missing a lot of musical nuance.
Blues breaks the rules.
Yes, it is a grade 3 blues rhythm piece. A fingerstyle piece that does incorporate a few lead licks but whose main focus is not really on teaching lead guitar / improvisation.
Iām sorry but that really is not a good advertisement for the Improvise For Real course. The fact that you are unaware of a basic minor pentatonic approach to playing lead improvisation over a I, IV, V 12-bar blues in the key of E.
If you want to improvise blues Justin teaches it for free.
Mmh.
You keep trying to solicit private phone conversations with forum members.
That is not how our community works. We do have the option of direct messaging other people. But Q&A topics are generally done in the community, in public, for all to freely read and learn from. An archive of useful information for JustinGuitar students, free to view.
Went on youtube and watched some of the IFR lessons and see what the problem is.
Itās a classical music course teaching method using the major scale. Neither of which relates to the blues at a beginner level.
The blues is a major chord progression using minor over tones (b3rd and b7th) to create a sound that breakes all the theory that is taught in the IFR course. Nowonder your head hurts.
In the Blue 7 chords are a Major chord using the flat 7 as a color tone. Making a 1 4 5 chord progression all in one Key. Even if all or none of the chord are dominant 7 chords. The use of the minor pentatonic scale over these Major chords is what gives the blues Itās sound. This is a very simple explanation but at the beginning when learning the Blues this is the best place to start.
Still confused, I will watch Justins courses and hope I can get some clarity.
I just thought it would be easier to ask some questions and get some insight.
Have you ever heard musicians talk about ābreaking the rules?ā.
Well, music theory is āthe rulesā, and Blues music breaks those rules all the time.
Blues has it own set of rules which isnāt the same as classic music theory.
Some very.advanced music theorists may be able to reconcile the differences but, then, that wouldnāt be the Blues
The Blues has some rules, but a lot of it is about feeling. The Blues involves note and chord choices which classical music theory completely eschews.
Classical music theory largely evolved from polite European society and the Church, and the need to set rules, whilst Blues music incorporates evolved in a completely different way and incorporated clashes and discordances that would be frowned upon in classical circles.
So, whilst classical music theory is often a great tool to guide you for many styles, for Blues you need to cast it aside and, to an extent, go with the flow and what sounds good.
Cheers,
Keith
I donāt think calling the notes numbers and using that to create the pattern is leaning towards classical. I am just having trouble figuring out what are the different pattern choices you can use
Personally, I think you are missing some basics.
I would start at Justinās beginner course and work through it for a bit, and then, perhaps, look at the Music Theory course.
Cheers,
Keith
I am doing the grade 4 blues course now!
Isnāt that the whole point of this lesson by Justin? Play the A7 arpeggio over the A7 chord, the D7 arpeggio over the D7 chord and the E7 arpeggio over the E7 Chord.
Arpeggio patterns contain only the notes of a particular chord from lowest to highest and back down. They are not scales which are the succession of a specific pattern of intervals starting on a given root note and covering an octave. Dominant 7 arpeggios include the 4 notes of the chord whereas minor pentatonic scales are constructed with the intervallic formula of Whole + Half - Whole - Whole - Half + Whole - Whole (tones, that is).
In blues, the A7 - D7 - E7 progression and an E minor pentatonic melody over it are not in 3 different keys but 1 key. Does it line up with classical harmony and āthe rulesā of classical music theory? Not to 100%. Does it sound good? For most people, it does.
