Quadads and their embedded triads - Chord tones, lead framework, navigation

Music Theory Quadad Chord Theory (4 Note Chords)
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I discovered a great little navigation tool/ chord structure yesterday during a practice routine harmonising scales/ 7th chords. Of course, it seems so obvious now; it was there all along; but I suppose you see something when you’re ready to see it.

The basic idea is the last 3 notes of a quadad form a triad, the framework of which can be utilised to navigate to, and play over this seemingly unrelated quadad; this is the important part - framework and navigation.

It relates primarily to extended 4 note chords. I’ll use 7ths, in the key of C, as the example, as I think these would be the most utilised.

Eg. For CMajor7 (CEGB);

the ‘embedded’ triad is Em ( EGB). So, if you know your triads a bit, the Em triad and all its inversions can be utilised up and down the neck on various strings and various voicings over the CMajor7. And you’ve always got the 2 main chord tones; the 3rd and 7th. You can also find the root, C, near all of these Em triads if you wish; the rhythm section etc will generally have this root covered though. So, the Em triad, is like a rootless CM7. Alternatively, you could call it a slash chord Em/C, if the root is included.

Similarly for example, say, for Am7; the C Major triads could be accessed all over the fretboard etc…

And of course, there’s a logical pattern across all the different 7th chords. Again, I suppose that becomes obvious when you think that we’re just stacking thirds continuously.

Here’s the full picture for the key of C Major, with the diatonic 7th quadads, and the ‘embedded’ triads.

CMaj7 - CEGB - Em triad

Dm7 - DFAC - F triad

Em7 - EGBD - G triad

FM7 - FACE - Am triad

G7 - GBDF - B° triad

Am7 - ACEG - C triad

Bm7b5 - BDFA - Dm triad

As you can see, the ‘embedded’ triads are the base triads of the key; they have to be.

And, importantly, each embedded triad is built off the 3rd of the quadad. This is seemingly obvious, but this will be the key I think, to actually accessing them on the go.

Also,

Major 7 quadads have ‘minor’ triads

Minor 7 quadads have ‘major,’ triads

Dom 7 quadads have ‘diminished’ triads

m7b5 quadads have ‘minor’ triads

I can already see this is going to be a great navigation tool for lead playing, and a great tool to increase fretboard knowledge. Using triad framework knowledge for chord tone targetting of seemingly unrelated chords; but they are intrinsically related. 12 immediate places to play one of these triads over any 7 chord, so there’ll always be one close by ( just to clarify, I’m only talking about closed triads here - spread triads would open it up alot further I imagine, but that’s beyond my scope for the foreseeable future). And it seems that it may be somewhat easier to locate the appropriate chord tones using this triad framework, in addition to the somewhat ‘bulkier, full caged framework, full arpeggios etc. It’ll likely take some years of familiarity before it starts to become a fully instinctual thing though.

Given my Blues, slant, I think I’ll take a look at the Dom7 form for the moment, and see what happens.

Anyone come across, or think about it in this way before?

Be interested in any input, notably from those like @Richard_close2u , time permitting; as I’m almost certain you’ll have some important perspectives/ directions on this topic.

Cheers, Shane

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Beyond me, Shane, just read it with wonder.

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Shane - you know I love this stuff.
I don’t have time for a full comment or to add much today unfortunately.
There is a beautiful and logical connection to the final stages of the 3rds and thirds topic in my Tips archive where 3rds are shown to be ‘suggestive’ of multiple bigger triads / chords, 3rds as partial chords. 3rds & Thirds - What Are They? Playing & Having Fun

Some one who can show you some bluesy rhythm applications of minor triads played against dominant 7 chords is Mr Congilio - whom I believe you admire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH6bcHI0Pug&t=609s

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Also for those people who are now starting to get dizzy… Richard’s first link contains some beautiful backing tracks and those 3rds & thirds are quite quick to apply/to do… that topic brings back many fond memories. …good times with a few bright lightbulb moments :smiley:

Greetings

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Same here. Didn’t understand much of it. Presumably a open D chord is a quadad?

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No.
Open D major has only three distinct notes - D, F#, A. It is a triad. Reference your study in the Practical Music Theory course.

A quadad has four distinct notes. It is a triad plus one note.

D major = 1, 3, 5 (triad)
D minor = 1, b3, 5 (triad)

D major 7 = 1, 3, 5, 7 (quadad)
D dominant 7 = 1, 3, 5, b7 (quadad)
D minor 7 = 1, b3, 5, b7 (quadad)

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Many thanks Richard; will definitely re-check out your link on 3rds, with this new info in mind. I’ve found a couple of videos that touch on the subject, but Mr Congilio will be my next stop - many thanks for the direction.

Cheers. Shane

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So the open D note is ignored? Doesn’t make a lot of sense if that is the case as D has for notes as far as I can see.

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Hey Shane, I’m not able to provide you with any direction in terms of conceptual roadmaps for improv, but just wanted to say thanks for sharing.

As usual, your comments are helping those of us a little further away in our journey to improvisation on the guitar in recognising that the raw materials are all laid out in front of us. . .just a question of seeing it, then feeling it.

Will keep plugging away at my triads. . . :wink: :rofl:

Thanks again!!
J

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No. Absolutely not.
For triads, you simply arrange the notes in alphabetical order with the root note being the first written and you do not write out the same letter (note name) more than once.

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Those embedded triads so extensively analysed by Shane contain one more important indication/hint. The triads embedded in Maj7 chords show what pentatonic can be used when soloing over those chords: Cmaj7 - Em pentatonic, Fmaj7 - Am. It’s always true, regardless of the key and the function of the chord. I use that relation in all my improvisations. For other Maj7 chords we have: for Gmaj7 - Bm penta, Dmaj7 - F#m penta, Amaj7 - C# penta, etc. All those directly relate to the embedded triads.

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@stuart Stuart don’t confuse the number of stings strummed with the number of notes being played. Take a look at the notes on the neck and you will see for open D you don’t play the E and A strings. Open D string is a D note, 2nd fret G string is an A note, 3rd fret B string is a D note, and 2nd fret high E string is an F# note. So there you have three notes played on 4 strings from lowest to highest D A D F#

To illustrate with a C chord, the notes played are nothing on the low E and then C E G C E on the other strings. Five strings played, three notes.

Major or minor chords are made up of three notes always, irrespective of how many times each note is played

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Very interesting discovery. I haven’t got this far in the theory yet so I look at quadads as “a triad + 1 note”, not as “a root note + a triad”. If I understand your reasoning correctly, these partial triads (played as chords or arpeggiated) will work as melody lines because (1) those notes are also part of the particular chord being played by the rhythm and (2) the minor pentatonic scale patterns make it easy to locate those notes on the fretboard. Is that so?

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That is a great CC video Richard, I shared it with the Posse recently and have had so much fun experimenting with the idea, some great cool sounds. To tie into BLIM I’ve transposed some of Corey’s content to the Key A for the I IV V. I just need to keep saying to myself minor 5 & 6 for each Root and hopefully I’ll nail that in any key !

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Yep, exactly. In the case of 7th quadads, they’re the 3,5,7 chord tones. Then make use of your triad framework knowledge to navigate to, and utilise them.
The tricky part obviously, is being able to eventually internally map the triad to the quadad, until one can utilise it without thinking too much. For me, that’s just going to take time, unfortunately.

I wouldn’t say so. Others of course, may have more experienced perspectives.

They way I see this particular ‘tool’, it’s about chord based soloing, rather then scale/ key based.
I’d call it soloing with ‘derived triads’.

However, in an actual playing environment, you’re likely going to be utilising a combination of chord and scale based playing.

As this is a new concept for me though, my views about some if this may change as I learn more, and things develop.

Cheers, Shane

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Hey @Richard_close2u ,

Just checked out Corey Congilio’s ‘minor triads over Dom7 chords’. Very well put together, as usual, from Corey.

It does relate very closely to what I was saying. I’ve noticed something there, and have an additional question if I may, using the video example.

Corey’s playing a Gm and Am triad over the C7. All good, on the surface.

From a navigation perspective, you’d see them as such. Pretty simple shapes, and right there. SImilar to what I was referencing.

However, they are really functioning as a C9 ( Gm triad), and and a C6 (Am triad), are they not?

This is why sound so right; in fact they sound pretty cool. That 6 ↔ 9 slide sound.

Doubly so perhaps in this example, as you also have the b7>Root resolution in the harmony.

So, it’s pretty much like sliding into a C6.

So

Gm ( G,Bb,D) is like a C9 of sorts

( rootless, and no 3rd), and

Am (A,C,E) is like a C6 ( no 5).

Would you agree with this? I’m thinking this would hold true across all the inversions.

Cheers, Shane

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Exactly right.
Justin covers similiar ground in his Gospel Slides lesson. https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/blues-gospel-slide-chords-bl-207
He is playing G7, C7 and D7 for a blues in A.

He specifically and directly calls it a slide from 9 to 6 and back again.
He starts with a G9. The 9 shape that he plays to slide is a 3-string breakdown of a bigger 4-string 9 chord.
And it just so happens that the shape is a Dm triad on strings D, G and B which slides to an Em triad on those strings.
When it comes to C7 and D7 he plays a bigger 5-string 9 shape and slides all or most of it but he could have broken it down to a triad on G, B and E strings.
He then shows two more options for the G9 - G6. One as a triad on G, B and E strings then again on D, G and B strings further along the neck.

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Great, thanks for the confirmation Richard. I like to absorb new ‘discoveries’ into the context of what I’ve already internalised somewhat. Seeing these in a 6/9 context makes logical sense, making it more likely I’ll utilise them in a real playing context. It’s ALL connected hey.

Cheers, Shane

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When connections are made, things become clearer and make more sense …
:slight_smile:

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But surely the open D is a note?

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