And then I started playing to a metronome and I think I’ve been subconsciously adjusting my tempo to fit the words into each bar.
I think I’m having an issue when a song lyric overlaps a bar… Or maybe sometimes I’m not sure where to come in.
I started re-learning Drugs Don’t Work as I’d kind of made my own strumming pattern and the one Justin teaches is much closer to the recording.
I’ve got the pattern don’t easily - I never have issues picking up the strumming - but when I sing with it, it’s almost as thou my vocals… Or my strumming wants to adjust and it just seems impossible to sing.
I’ve even taken to singing along to the Metranome and then playing along to it separately but at the same speed… And then playing together! But nope.
As soon as I play and sing it goes to pot.
I’m not sure if I’m coming in at the wrong place which is throwing it out.
Its difficult to be sure.
It starts with two downward strokes and then a flurry, another flurry and down.
Its a bit of an odd pattern to my ear anyway.
Will practice just fix it or can coming in at the wrong time make it never fit?
Singing and guitar is super hard. Do a search and you will find loads of forum threads about this very topic. Justin has some good lessons on this.
Start with super easy songs. Make sure one of the parts is super automated.
Lieven also has some great tips at this. It is a great feeling of accomplishment. It is one that I started my journey to make sure I did with every song that I love in my vocal range. I have been getting better.
Good luck James you can do it. Time, practice and automation with your strumming. So good strumming foundation is really important.
Here’s my take on this James whether it’s right or wrong- … I never pay attention to strumming patterns or BPM , or the metronome or trying to play exactly like the original. Music to me is not a a science but a feeling. Just play what you think feels right and more importantly what sounds right and most of the time the audience you are playing for won’t know the difference anyway. Just have fun with it and if it works out differently than the original then you have made it your own
As others have said, playing while singing is deceptively hard! I know I definitely underestimated how hard it was going to be when I first started.
The trick to playing while singing is to make sure you really get the guitar part down to the point where it’s automatic and you aren’t thinking about it. This will likely take some practice time. Once you have the guitar part down, you can try just talking or having a conversation with someone while playing it as a precursor to singing.
I’m not familiar with that particular song, so I can’t say whether this is the case or not, but some songs are trickier to sing if the vocals don’t start on beat one. I had a fairly simple song (chord wise anyway) I was learning that was really hard for me to sing to because the lyrics in the chorus started on the off beat. With songs like this, it’s even more important to really take the time to automate the guitar so you can concentrate more on the vocals.
And that has never happened to me. Ever. Even songs I’ve been playing for years; if I don’t concentrate on the playing, it falls apart. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to play and sing.
Yep, person after my own heart. I tend to (mostly) let the feel of it dictate how I play/sing it. As you say Eddie, right or wrong if it feels ok to me then I’m happy(ish)
Thats a cool way to look at it. If you have to have skills to be able to play off the cuff that way and make sound good thats sweet.
I have been singing my whole life. I have been plucking and strumming for 15 months. So I really only choose songs that I know the lyrics pretty cold. I dont know its hard. I disn do my christmas song on the spur of the moment.
I will offer another thing I would tell my 8 month ago self. Start recording your self right away. Man I wish I had not waited a year. To do any meaningful recording. You can learn a lot obout your playing and singing from watching your self.
I’m not great, after only 9 months who is.
But I can listen to a song and pick up the strumming really easily.
When I sing my strumming automatically seems to adjust to fit the words which is fine I suppose but in this instance, I really like the correct strumming pattern.
I used a metronome and it seems I’m slowly fading out of beat, maybe inserting a half beat and so it slowly pulls me out of time.
I try singing to the actual strumming pattern and my mind wants to put an extra beat in which messes with the pattern.
When you try to play along with a metronome AND you try to sing it, you are testing and training too much at once.
Recently I followed a seminar with an interesting theory: Learning is most effective when you do it by recalling what is already in your memory. Long term memory that is.
The process of fetching it from your memory, reproducing it and perhaps applying some filler on the go is what solidifies your knowledge. Applying the correct filler is what makes it a bit more accurate every time.
Hence the word “testing” I used. When rehearsing a song, you are actually testing what is already there. By fetching it and reproducing it, you are learning. By taking your time over days, perhaps weeks, you are taking a good pace. Remember what I always wrote about sleep; it’s a crucial part of learning as well.
Try breaking up your practice in one challenge at a time.
Playing through the chords without metronome
Playing along with a metronome
Sing over guitar without metronome
Sing over metronome perhaps… although that can get icky.
In addition to all the previous great advice, have you tried playing along with the original recording? This might help you figure out where you are having challenges and adjust accordingly.
I always get a good laugh at myself when I try to sing and play. It is comical how suddenly I have no clue what my strumming hand is doing. Oddly enough, my fretting hand does ok. Is that because I am lefty playing righty?
I am not that great at videoing myself, I need to do that so I can see if I am strumming ok while I sing.
I think @frito has a good suggestion to play along with the original if you can. I also agree with @Eddie_09 that we don’t need to worry about copying the guitar parts exactly. Although, that shouldn’t be “messy because I don’t know what my right hand is doing” freedom.
I am trying to practice with songs I have been playing a long time that are also songs I know from my whole life like “wish you were here” and “Norwegian wood”, or “Jingle bells”. I know the words, always have and now that I am getting very comfortable with playing them (years) I can try to put it together. I probably won’t try to learn a new to me song and lyrics until I get those down.
James, It sounds to me that you are trying to do too much too quickly. Be easy on yourself and break the process down into a string of small steps, each of which is just a little more challenging than the previous one.
As a start: do you know the melody on its own? Notes pitch and length and then phrasing (on which beat of a bar does the melody start etc). If you don’t that’s what you need to learn first or you have no chance of singing it when you add the guitar in.
Once you have the melody down on its own then try and sing it over quarternote hand claps. When that works then sing the melody over quarternote strums - or go even slower if you have to. Only when you can sing the melody over quarternote strums add more of the actual strumming pattern that you want to play - if the pattern is complicated go beat by beat. So if there is a strum on 1a then add that in and for beats 2-3 you keep playing quarternotes. Add more complexity only when you can master the first beat of the bar.
Breaking things down like this seems complicated but it isn’t - it’s just hard to type it out and explain it in writing. It’s a game changer, also because you start singing right away and don’t wait until you have a strumming pattern all nicely under your fingers.
Yeah it’s tough. Great song this one though. Love The Verve!
16th notes strumming with this pattern and with the push changes with the F to G to C bit is pretty challenging to stay in time and sing across. As others have said maybe just relax a little bit and feel it more than trying to keep exact time - play along and sing along to the record to see how the vocals cross over bars. Maybe just slow it down and simplify it a bit -
If you like Richard Ashcroft songs - “Lucky Man” is another great one to play and sing along to. The chords and timing are a little simpler but it’s still 16th notes and some sus chords. I’m working on this one and haven’t taken on “drugs don’t work” yet.
Oh and one more thing to maybe check out… I recently started messing around with Garageband app on iphone - it comes “free” with iphone and is a pretty powerful little piece of software. You can record your guitar on one track and then sing over your guitar. This allows you to kind of work on these parts separately but still with your own singing and guitar playing. You can add a metronome to this also. I found this little tutorial really helpful:
Thanks for the reply.
I actually pretty much fixed my issue.
What I didn’t realise until I recorded myself and watched it back, was that I wasn’t keeping my hand moving when I was strumming.
As soon as I kept my hand moving in time with the 16th strumming, then my singing remained in time with my playing and it all fell into place.
Well, I say it all fell into place - I have the worst memory in the world for lyrics and really have to drum it into me - but the challenge of singing and playing in time with one another was resolved.
I do plan on learning Lucky Man once I can remember the lyrics to the Drugs Don’t Work.
I’m currently learning Let Her Go by Passinger and the finger picking for that takes some real focus too.
All great songs.
