Slow down. It will take time

[CT]

@CT

I get a great sense of accomplishment every time I nail some little thing that’s new to me. My first hammer-on? WOW!

I didn’t post this anywhere or at anytime. Please remove the quote from your post. Thanks!

[CT]

Please clean up your post above. You have me quoted with something that someone else posted. Thanks!

[mattswain]

I think the other thing that some people don’t seem to appreciate is that there’s a finite number of hours in the day. Theory, ear-training, transcribing etc if I put time into all these things then I won’t have time to pick up my guitar!!! For now, trying to learn to play other people’s songs from spoonfed lessons is plenty

[JokuMuu]

Thanks. Didn’t even see that this is shown as if I was quoting you. I meant to quote Nate but something is messed up in his post.

Removed

[Mustela]

this forum uses a weird variation of bbcode I’m not accustomed to. no other forum I’ve used handles multiquotes the same way as this one.

[Mustela]

As someone who has trained to be a teacher and who teaches outdoor skills for a living, the one enormous constant with all of the methods and sub-methods I’ve gone through is the concept of progression or scaffolding (physical education tends to use the term “progression” whereas other types of education like to use the word “scaffolding” even though they’re essentially interchangeable). Where you start small and super basic and build on that as you go. Not everyone is going to work through those progressions at the same rate, but those progressions still exist, even if you aren’t conscious about them. Folks who have more innate ability at a thing are more likely to be unaware of that process.

I just don’t see something like playing by ear to be something to rush or press folks into. It might help your playing, but is it absolutely essential? I don’t see that.

[Mustela]

I had written down my wishes. After I had given the paper to my teacher, he said “I’m already confused”. So we started from the top of my list, which was changing to and from F-barre and at towards the end of the lesson came to the “strum something” bit. Finally we decided together how to continue. Isn’t that how it should work? I mean, sounds like your old teachers weren’t very good if they only taught what they wanted to teach and didn’t listen to you resp. didn’t adapt to your wishes.

Yeah, I had expressed my wishes. But I was BRAND NEW to guitar at the time and didn’t know what I didn’t know. My goals were extremely general at the time. And honestly, it took me a very long time to realize what my own difficulty was. It wasn’t until I stumbled across a method that worked to get me past that that I realized it. It’s the sort of thing that a good teacher should be able to see, adjust for, and help you work through. And that never happened. It took a generic online lesson that was designed by the instructor to be able to handle the specific issue that I was having.

[roger_holland]

@Mustela

I just don’t see something like playing by ear to be something to rush or press folks into. It might help your playing, but is it absolutely essential? I don’t see that.

This is the Justinguitar forum and he and also the teachers here and the better guitar teachers on the web think differently about it (other teachers with different skills and totally other goals)… that’s the reason I started talking about this, I’m parroting our teacher as you can often find here, I I just don’t see how a teacher in a completely different area suddenly has knowledge of how to become a good guitar teacher /player … really not, such a different skill … yes, learn everything in small steps, but I also say that because it really starts with very small steps … all large and small players learned this way in the past by listening to others in front of studios or in bars when they didn’t have the money to go in etc etc, and that is often discussed referenced how much better she learned to play from it, it not only helps my game but as Justin says, everyone’s game… no exception, but now I do it again and apparently I put too much pressure on you so I will stop,

I Press ? or Justin ? Sorry to read it again, I hoped that my explanation would be enough not to put pressure on you.

Don’t do it if you don’t want to…just don’t do it

Have fun and please do absolute nothing you don`t want to do …

Greetings

[Mustela]

an awful lot of teaching methods work regardless of the subject matter and that’s where I’m drawing connections. learning those teaching methods was a big part of realizing where music instructors has failed me in the past.

you can learn to play an instrument without being able to play by ear. that’s what various music notation (any notation type, including chord sheets, tabs, etc) is for, in part. yes, pioneers had to figure out how to play by ear when music notation wasn’t available at all, or not available for a particular instrument. folks that can do that straight away are gifted. but is that required? it’s not. is it a part of transitioning from a beginner into a skilled musician? sure, I’d buy that. when do you need to learn it?

the point at which someone is “ready” to work on it is going to vary. that gets back to the title of this very discussion. “Slow down. It will take time.” Don’t rush into trying to learn too many things too quickly or you’re going to overwhelm yourself, another thing that will vary from one person to the next.

move too slowly and you’ll get bored. move too quickly and you’ll get overwhelmed. the key is to find the pacing that works for you.

Justin is not the only good music teacher out there. Some of the methods he uses don’t work as well for me. Some do. He’s not the only instructor I’m learning from right now. This is how learning works. You can only do so much adaptation for learning styles in pre-packaged lessons, so I don’t fault Justin for presenting some things in ways that don’t work well for me. When you’re presenting lessons in this way, you have to make decisions how to teach things and when to teach them. And this is one area where pre-made online lessons (for any subject) fall short. This is where in-person instruction is advantageous. A good instructor can adapt to their student’s learning type and pacing needs. that’s easier to do one-on-one than it is in a group setting when you have different people with different needs.

[Tbushell]

@Mustela

I’m starting to get a feeling that the same phenomenon of experienced folks forgetting what it’s like to be learning the basics is still out there.

Yes, I see that fairly often as well.

Often, it’s good advice as a goal e.g. you want to eventually be able to play by ear, or from memory.

But there are a lot of intermediate steps to achieving that goal that are being forgotten, or skipped over.

[grabhorn]

Thank you for sharing this, Nicole. I feel like it’s a recurring lesson for me. It’s been 11 months since I started, and I have many times decided that I needed to review things from the beginning and do it slowly. For me, my ears and my fingers tell me it’s necessary; things just don’t sound or feel right, so I know I have to get that fixed before I move on. And I don’t mind, because I’m here for the ride.

As far as this:

@CT

OK, I get it. Slow it down. Sure, if you’re learning by rote. Practice a slow song or progression slowly. When do you start to groove? I mean when do you really start to thump that guit-fiddle? You’re gonna slow-walk Jumpin’ Jack Flash, La Grange, everything? Play a slow thing slow and a fast thing fast – build up to the fast stuff. If your thing is to slow down every fast thing, I would like to hear you pull it off. Learn to jam and cut it loose once in a while. Push yourself.

Yes, at 11 months, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. And that will be pushing myself. “Learn to jam” is great advice, and this is how it starts - very slowly. I think sometimes folks forget what it’s like to have zero skills.

[JokuMuu]

@grabhorn

It’s been 11 months since I started, and I have many times decided that I needed to review things from the beginning and do it slowly. For me, my ears and my fingers tell me it’s necessary; things just don’t sound or feel right, so I know I have to get that fixed before I move on.

Sounds like a really useful skill. It’s one that I will have to work on for sure.

@grabhorn

I think sometimes folks forget what it’s like to have zero skills.

I guess that’s something that happens somewhat naturally. It takes effort to remember what certain struggles have been in the beginning and how certain challenges were conquered.

I do think however that we are very fortunate to have a range of skilled and experienced players in the community, who can remember early beginners’ struggles and who invest time and effort to support and help where they can

[franzek]

@JokuMuu

I do think however that we are very fortunate to have a range of skilled and experienced players in the community, who can remember early beginners’ struggles and who invest time and effort to support and help where they can

This

It’s a skill in itself to relate beginners’ challenges and we’re incredibly lucky to have such supportive members in our community who are able and willing to do exactly that.

At the same time, we as beginners are smart enough to decide which advice to follow immediately and which to consider at a later point in our journey

[Stuartw]

@franzek

It’s a skill in itself to relate beginners’ challenges and we’re incredibly lucky to have such supportive members in our community who are able and willing to do exactly that.

Agreed!

[CT]

We all have to learn how to learn. I would avoid blanket statements such as Slow Down. Better to know when to slow down, follow exactly, when to skip a step and when to blast away. Things can come with time for some, while others have a built in sense of when to zig and when to zag.

[fred3027]

Absolutely take it slow. Everything new I learn I start as Justin said, air changes, slow repetitive chord changes, hands off the guitar then apply the chord shape. It all works. Rushing and not being patient will lead to frustration and take the joy out of learning. Don’t be hard on yourself, learning guitar is difficult at first.
I’m 2 and a half years into Justin’s course (2/3rds through intermediate) and my advice is stick with it, take a day or two away from guitar when you feel frustrated(you’ll be surprised how much it helps) and play songs with each new chord(s) you learn.

[JokuMuu]

@fred3027

air changes, slow repetitive chord changes, hands off the guitar then apply the chord shape. It all works.

I have started doing this now. Not much. Maybe an hour since Monday. Very slowly. And I have a feeling it has some effect already… Doesn’t make much sense - maybe Placebo effect only. But even Placebos help sometimes

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

Been interesting following this. Much comment on learning things slowly to which I would agree with a caveat. Slow is also relative. If you are learning a melody or solo you may need to do that a bar at a time or even a note at a time, building the piece part by part and getting the timing and phrasing right. So that could be a solo at 120 BPM so anything under that would be consider slow. You get the first few bars under your fingers but only get the timing right at 80 BPM. That’s slow and that’s fine. You are learning and not performing. Aim to get the whole solo down at that pace. Played with focus and precision, learning, developing, NOT performing. Once you get the whole section into your head and fingers even at 80 BPM you have learnt the piece. Then it is time to work on speed. Make sure you can play the piece at 80 BPM a few times clean and accurate, then bump the temp by a couple of clicks. You may be cool at 85 BPM you may crash and burn. Back it off say to 82, get that nailed and try again. No matter how long it takes play it a little faster each time without mistakes. Get it right each time then bump the BPM again. Wash rinse repeat until you get to that target 120 BPM. Could take weeks, months or years, just work the tempo bit by bit. Then when you hit that desired tempo don’t think your work is done. Gradually work it up to say 130 BPM and hang with it there for a while, all the time clean accurate and not sloppy. When you get those extra 10 BPMs under your belt consistently, drop it down to the target tempo and it will feel like a walk in the park.

Never forget the difference between learning, practice and performance. There’s a big difference. You will want to nail it tempo wise when performing. But slow steady building in the learning and practice stage is the way to go.

Heck but what do I know ?

[stitch]

And don’t forget to steel every lick you like and add it to you’re own playing. Using them at different tempos and have fun.

[sclay]

Wise words Toby, especially about relativity.
I’ve only been around a few years, so this sort of info coming from your vastly more experienced view is certainly worth heeding.

On relativity and speed.
How I do it now?

Once I get a lick, solo section, alt picking drill etc basically down, my next step is to find what I’ve come to understand as my CTS; Continuous Top Speed. ie the speed at which I can play it with perfect articulation, timing, error free etc, for at least 4 bars.
Now, for some things that may be 60 bpm 8th notes. For something else, it may be 100 bpm 16th notes.
So my starting point is whatever my CTS is for that piece. If I need to play it faster, I’ll use drills like speed bursts, etc to go from that tempo.

Earlier in my playing, I’d start everything at 60 bpm 1/4 notes and bump up by 5 each time. At 12 months of playing, this was the perfectly right method for me. Today, 3 years later, that would be wasting time.
So yeah, a very important point I think. Tempo is relative to the piece you are tackling, and the level you are at.

Cheers, Shane